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Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? #1909
01/31/06 12:06 AM
01/31/06 12:06 AM
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Washington
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Dee Dee Offline OP
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I just kind of fell into being the photographer for the Lure Coursing at the Borzoi Nationals this year in May (still not quite sure how that happened LOL). I think I will do OK but there are some things I need to find out first and am hoping to get some guidance.

I have never done this officially before. I have taken lots and lots of photos over the years, mainly to paint from. (I am an artist by trade). And many of those have been action shots. I am still learning the camera settings, etc, but have a pretty good understanding of that now (I know there is a lot more to learn but I can at least guess at what settings for general lighting situations).

What I don't know at all is what do I bring, how do I, and what do I need to be able to take orders or give to the owners to find my site. I won't be able to upload the images for people to see there, so I'm guessing I should go home that first night (it's 2 days) and run off some small proofs? I would think you want to try and take orders there rather than later, while people are thinking about it? I have an epson 4000 so have the means to print quality prints out, but dont' know what sizes to offer and how to price them. I also have done a lot of photo manipulation and tweaking in photoshop, so should I offer that service as well? And also offer just the high res digital images for sale on a CD?

Do I put my signature and/or web site on each photo, digital or printed out?

I am going to get a separate web site from my art site for photo things. I have been thinking of this for a while because I go to so many dog, horse and cat events to take photos for painting inspiration, I thought why not try and make some money selling the photos I would be taking anyway. My feeling is the art and photography should not be on one site, becasue I have seen that done and I tend to think right offhand, if they do both they must not be really good at either...(even though that is usually not the case). Does that make sense? And do most people just use their name and photo for the domain, such as joeblowphoto.com, is that a "professional" way to name yourself?

I am a little worried that I don't know what, or even if, lure coursing people look for in their photos. Maybe nothing in particular, maybe just good action. But the club did say they would like win shots, so I don't know if that means the dog stacked with the judge or what. I have shown dogs for many years myself so I know that the different breeds can be stacked differently and are typically photographed at different angles than one another, etc. But I have no clue with Borzoi Lure Coursing.

Also do I automatically retain the right to reproduce the photos, even the ones that people purchase? (say if I wanted to paint from one pretty literally, or wanted to sell the image as a photo print).

If anyone can give me any advice I'd be very grateful! Everyone has to start somewhere right LOL. I didn't quite plan this but since it came about, I want to do my best. Thanks!

Last edited by Dee Dee; 01/31/06 01:04 AM.

My Web Site www.deedeemurry.com
Re: Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? [Re: Dee Dee] #1910
01/31/06 08:58 AM
01/31/06 08:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Dandenong Ranges, Melbourne, A...
PossumCorner Offline
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PossumCorner  Offline
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Quote:

... photographer for the Lure Coursing at the Borzoi Nationals this year in May .... what do I bring, ... and what do I need to be able to take orders ...

Also do I automatically retain the right to reproduce the photos, even the ones that people purchase? (say if I wanted to paint from one pretty literally, or wanted to sell the image as a photo print).




Sounds terrific opportunity DeeDee and lots of time to plan. You need some good advice from the pros on the forum, I have found their advice invaluable. Because lure coursing is non-competetive here we do not have a "win" situation to photograph. Nor is it breed restrictive, all breeds participate, it is "run for fun". We have similar problems: Paul and I are not geared up to show people results at the event (one-day only, so cannot return the next day with proofs either).

What we do is take a lot of shots, try to get every dog running, and put them onto the website as soon as possible, usually the following day. Sooner would be better. And we hand out lots of cards. We print our business cards on photo-paper. I'd suggest putting a card-holder at the exit-gate so people can find them if you miss handing them out. Only by having our business card do they know to look at the website, so no card is a no-sale. We then depend on people looking at the website and e-mailing or phoning us for price details and ordering. If you opened a pro Smugmug site for your photography, clients can order direct from there. (We don't offer this, being in Australia it would be a bit top-heavy, but the Smugmug photo-hosting is excellent).

Keep your copyright: if you contact a client to tell them the cost of prints, include the information that you retain copyright. If they want a CD, charge for each print at your own lowest rate (our lowest is $10 for a 5 x 7 at this stage) so 10 images on CD - $100. (low resolution so they can only get a quality 4x6 when printing themselves). Consider a pro-lab between now and then because home-printing does not always work out as reliably and is more expensive than a good lab will produce for you. Even if you just get a couple of small items printed by them so that you know how their system works (submit by email or CD or whatever) so they are there for you in a short-notice emergency (ink run out/printer problem).

If you look at the KCC Park lure coursing on our website you will see some mixed results: it is not always the shot you like that sells: it is the one of a dog whose owner is keen to have an action shot of it. That is why we put up everything, distance shots and all. When an enquiry is received we advise that the print will be cropped to increase the image of the dog if possible at no extra charge. Then we email to the lab and collect 'by hand' to package for mailing.

What owners appreciate is simply good action, good clarity of expression. If the dog's eye can be seen, and a highlight in it, that is a real plus. I am surprised that "win shots" would be as popular as action: although people also like starting shots, their dog being held back but anxious to run, a sort of "let slip the dogs of war" feeling.

For equipment, if you are hoping to take many shots, some storage such as an Epson 2000 or 4000 (unless you have unlimited memory cards) is a must, second only to one or two spare batteries.

Hopefully you will get some much more useful responses. We have found the lure coursing photography a lot of fun, and it has generated more orders for us than Flyball competitions per event. (And being all-breeds welcome to 'have a go' are also able to give our own dogs a run).

Another grey area re putting images on website is with-or-without a model release. I rely on the organisers having welcomed us as photographers being an indication that results will be on the website, and do not seek individual clearances. I have only once been asked to remove an image (because the dog's handler considered the shot unflattering of said handler).

I'll be looking at further replies here with interest, as I have a lot to learn on both the technical and the business side.

Edit to add: DeeDee, having now looked at your website, you are absolutely right, do not mix the photography and art on the same site, they both deserve to stand alone, and one might distract attention from the other. Your art work is beautiful, off now to look at your CafePress. Cheers, PC.

Last edited by PossumCorner; 01/31/06 09:06 AM.
Re: Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? [Re: PossumCorner] #1911
01/31/06 10:32 PM
01/31/06 10:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
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Dee Dee Offline OP
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Thank you for this great advice PC. I looked at your photos, AWESOME! I'm getting more excited about this. I had not heard of the epson 2000 or 4000 (I just looked them up...these are the kinds of tips I am needing so I go there prepared!) Would the epson P-4000 be the answer to being able to show dog owners the photos to order from right there on the site? Also I have heard of "battery packs" but am not sure how they work...would that be something to get for a long day of shooting like this, and if not how many regular batteries should cover it?

Thank you for the other advice too, I have it all printed out and will be reviewing it.
Dee Dee


My Web Site www.deedeemurry.com
Re: Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? [Re: Dee Dee] #1912
04/22/06 06:15 PM
04/22/06 06:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Dandenong Ranges, Melbourne, A...
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Dee Dee I'd wondered how it was going for you, and love the poodle shot. Then looked at your new photos website!! Oh my gosh you have been busy no wonder you weren't posting. Your lure coursing are shots are great (now I want another Basenji). And I can't believe the weight pulling, we don't get to see that unless in the Pit Bull Club, it is fairly restricted. Some of your candid action shots are just amazing, in fact your whole new website just floored me.

So my turn to ask, how are you managing sales at the events? That is something we couldn't manage at this stage, not well enough equipped, (and probably not well enough organised during an event to allow the time for it).

Re: Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? [Re: PossumCorner] #1913
04/23/06 04:12 AM
04/23/06 04:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
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Dee Dee Offline OP
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Dee Dee  Offline OP
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It's odd to read what I was asking about now, a lot has happened since then. I got a kodak 1400 but sent it back, now I'm just printing from my epson 4000 from home until I decide if I really want to print on site or not, and get a smaller one that we can take along.

Thanks so much for your compliments, coming from someone of your skill that means a lot.

We were pretty much overwhelmed our first shoot (the Lure Course). We weren't prepared for one thing, we only went to practice as it is the same grounds as the Borzoi Nationals we are doing next month (we are also doing another all breed one next month). But they asked us to offer them for sale so we scrambled to get the site running, etc.

At the trial, Dave downloaded the cards to the lap top for people to view. We decided we will see how it goes to just have viewing stations like this and take orders right there but not print there, wait to get home to fill orders. I hope we will still get the impulse buys that way. If this gets bigger, we'll probably need more people than just the two of us but we'll see if we get bigger jobs or not. Some events I shoot myself (like the weight pull) and put the images up on the site afterwards, without having a viewing station at the event. Sales were still OK but I'm sure would have been better if we had taken orders right then.


My Web Site www.deedeemurry.com
Re: Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? [Re: Dee Dee] #1914
04/23/06 08:03 AM
04/23/06 08:03 AM
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Tess32 Offline
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I just saw this thread and wow. PC - I charge so much less for my lure coursing pix, I think I'm now depressed!


D'urberville Photography http://www.durbervillephotography.com.au
Re: Need advice...Jim Garvie , anyone? [Re: Tess32] #1915
04/23/06 09:22 AM
04/23/06 09:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Dandenong Ranges, Melbourne, A...
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Nat I think it is a "stage" in the process - I've found it difficult to separate business priorities and participation in the sport etc. I started out giving prints away: then a small charge to cover costs (which of course it doesn't go close to doing). When Paul and I started to work at it together, even though still on a hobby basis, it made it easier to make a fresh start - and a fresh price list.

We still need to work on a better system, some advertising (as James has also just mentioned in another thread) and more organised planning generally.


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