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Re: First practice doing pet photography [Re: Skeeter] #12676
02/12/08 09:32 PM
02/12/08 09:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline
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Jim Garvie  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Kim,
I do dog show photography as a job and not a hobby. I've done Agility as well as Conformation and have found that shooting dog sports is a very special skill with increasingly sophisticated delivery systems. Talk to David Ramey about that. He's a member of this forum and one of the top Dog Sport Photographers in the Country.

My segment has been Conformation and shooting show formals at shows as well as candids at shows where I'm not the Official Photographer. I've found that you just can't do both well at the same event.

A typical show weekend will have me shooting 400-600 wins with 2-3 proofs per setup. I shoot the classes mainly in the rings; the Groups mainly at a formal podium with studio lighting. Kinda like Westminster which is shot by John Ashby.

I then mail out the proofs with order forms, get the orders and fulfill them through an outside lab. When I'm not shooting shows, I photograph pets both in my studio and in their homes. Sometimes inside and sometimes outside depending on the dog and the feeling the owner wants. These are formal portraits regardless of where I shoot them.

A side business of ours is the publishing of The Rottweiler Magazine which is Linda's main business but I manage the financial/marketing part of it and contribute a lot of images. Since a lot of what I do ends up getting used in advertising, we've developed an advertising LOB (line of business) which currently has 5 main clients on annual contracts for weekly advertising development and placement.

Since we are both "self-employed" our businesses must generate enough income to cover our expenses which is why we continue to look closely at the viability of each venture we enter into. Income potential and profitability are as important to me as the artistic merit of what I do. Of course, I love photography and I love dogs so the actual work is pretty rewarding. But if it wasn't making enough money, I'd have to focus my energies elsewhere.

Good luck with your photography and continued success with your candids. You certainly have the skill to make it work.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: First practice doing pet photography [Re: Visceral Image] #12677
02/12/08 11:11 PM
02/12/08 11:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
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Julie  Offline
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TN
I do this as my living, but, this is my first few years and there is a lot of startup costs. Thankfully I do have my husband to "really" support us. I am fairly sure that 2008 I will see an actual profit on my tax returns. Business is picking up very quickly

I started as an horse show photographer and people do buy. Rated shows are worth doing(though exhausting) as people are used to paying $35 for an individual photo. The smaller shows people aren't willing to spend as much, You still get sales, as long as your product is good. It is a lot of work for the amount of return

I don't know what the coursing photographers are charging in Canada, but, around here, they charge $2.75 an original file. That is fine if that is a business model you can live with. I cannot. It is a hot/wet/long day sitting on a field with no shade. I watched him shoot when it was 102f with no shade.

I am also a dog sport person, finished my (then) 12m old whippet's ASFA Fch in 2 weekends at 12m. My daughter wants to start to do agility with my older bitch. My youngest whippet should be an amazing courser.

Your images are plenty good enough to sell. It is very hard to be at an event in a professional context and participate. It starts taking away the fun. Not to mention that you will need to start thinking about business licenses, insurance, paying taxes etc; and so on

And as far as event photography goes, everybody has a DSLR now. So, it is getting harder and harder to make it a worthwhile business. People like Dave have multiple proofing on site computers and I believe he also prints on site.

It looks easy and easy to make quick money. If you do it halfway and just cover entries, you could probably do that. Though, do check to see if there is an official photographer there. If there is, don't shoot and sell also. That will bite you on the butt down the road if you ever do want to do it as a profession

Re: First practice doing pet photography [Re: Jim Garvie] #12678
02/12/08 11:20 PM
02/12/08 11:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Canada
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Skeeter Offline
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Skeeter  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Canada
Thanks for your reply, Jim! Very nice for you to be able to do what you love and earn a living

I'm in southern Ontario and we have several pro's who cover sporting events but I think all of them have day jobs as well.


Kim
Re: First practice doing pet photography [Re: Julie] #12679
02/12/08 11:58 PM
02/12/08 11:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Canada
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Skeeter Offline
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Skeeter  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
Canada
Quote:

I started as an horse show photographer and people do buy.




I got an opportunity to shoot some barrel racing this summer and quite enjoyed it! It was for my own interest and experience though. I like horses but know nothing about them.

Quote:

I don't know what the coursing photographers are charging in Canada, but, around here, they charge $2.75 an original file.




Wow...that's nuts. How do they cover costs at that price???

Sadly, we rarely have anyone out to cover our trials. We had an experienced lure coursing photographer out a couple of years ago...I think I paid ~$5 per 4x6. A fair price, IMO, though the images I purchased were just mediocre.

I attended an event in another province in '07 and that photographer was charging $20 per 4x6. Personally, I won't pay that much (well...it would have to be a pretty amazing image...).

Quote:

I am also a dog sport person, finished my (then) 12m old whippet's ASFA Fch in 2 weekends at 12m. My daughter wants to start to do agility with my older bitch. My youngest whippet should be an amazing courser.




Excellent! I really like to see show dogs course too. I'm always shocked when I attend a conformation match and not recognize ANY of the whippets from coursing (other than my dogs breeder)...kinda sad if you ask me.

Quote:

Your images are plenty good enough to sell. It is very hard to be at an event in a professional context and participate.




Thank you Interestingly, event photography, in the true sense of the term, is not something I'd take on. Photography is fun until people start bitching. I'm a dog person...don't have a lot of patience for people who are not respectful. So...if I'm there, I'll take some pics, but I don't have to live up to anybodies expectations or accept their criticism as I owe them nothing

Also, as you suggested, you can't properly cover an event and participate at the same time. My dogs come first...my whippet gets properly warmed up, cooled down, pottied, watered, and my staffords get play time as well. The crappy part about that is that I end up missing a lot of whippets.

Quote:

And as far as event photography goes, everybody has a DSLR now. So, it is getting harder and harder to make it a worthwhile business. People like Dave have multiple proofing on site computers and I believe he also prints on site.




Totally agree...I am one of them But...not everybody can take an action shot, has the "eye", or the desire to learn how to use the camera.

And really, if people aren't buying I'm not losing anything.

Quote:

Though, do check to see if there is an official photographer there. If there is, don't shoot and sell also. That will bite you on the butt down the road if you ever do want to do it as a profession




Would never do that. Actually, I was at an event where there was no official pro hired or invited but one showed up later in the day. He saw me shooting, looked a bit uncomfortable, and left I felt sooooooo bad I wasn't there to cover the event or sell photos...just there because I really enjoy it and want to improve my skills. Next time that happens I will definitely have a chat.

Thanks again for the great dialogue


Kim
Re: First practice doing pet photography [Re: Skeeter] #12680
02/13/08 06:35 PM
02/13/08 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
st. petersburg, florida, usa a...
V
Visceral Image Offline OP
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Visceral Image  Offline OP
Old hand
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Joined: Jan 2008
st. petersburg, florida, usa a...
Quote:

And as far as event photography goes, everybody has a DSLR now. So, it is getting harder and harder to make it a worthwhile business.




Quote:

Totally agree...I am one of them But...not everybody can take an action shot, has the "eye", or the desire to learn how to use the camera.





I have heard similar quotes going all the back to when I first started taking photos professionally, 1975. People have had film cameras, box camera, instamatics, and digital cameras. I have sold pictures to all of these owners because many of them have learned they just can not reproduce the same dynamic images with their cameras. It is not the camera but the person snapping the shutter. I am sure I have also lost an exceeding large quantity of sales to this same group of camera owners. I believe if you produce a quality product, market it to buyers that are interested in buying, and deliver on-time: then you can make a career in photography. You may not make 6 figures doing in-situ pet photography but you can certainly fund a few goodies. If you choose to make a career, then Jim is correct; you must be selective and produce the images that will sell-or go hungry. Oh, yes, I have been hungry!

Last edited by Visceral Image; 02/13/08 06:37 PM.
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