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Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! #23162
06/01/09 05:54 PM
06/01/09 05:54 PM
Joined: May 2008
Virginia, USA
Jim Poor Offline OP
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Jim Poor  Offline OP
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I like the framing by the, err, A-frame.


Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Jim Poor] #23163
06/01/09 06:53 PM
06/01/09 06:53 PM
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DavidRamey Offline
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Unless I was going to take a photo for the BACK of a T-shirt, I would never have taken this photo in the first place. Jim, it is no wonder that you take so many photos during a trial. You need to learn WHEN NOT TO TAKE A PHOTO.


David Ramey Photography
Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: DavidRamey] #23164
06/01/09 07:22 PM
06/01/09 07:22 PM
Joined: May 2008
Virginia, USA
Jim Poor Offline OP
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Jim Poor  Offline OP
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You're putting entirely too much importance on one photo. This is hardly an indication of what I shoot regularly.

I've sold several "away" shots, I guess they are different that what everyone else does. I only take them if I see a really pretty jumper or have some other reason to.

I happened to get this one because the dog had a habit of looking over it's shoulder at the handler while jumping. Had he done so on this obstacle, it would have made for a killer shot. As it is, I still like it.

I end up with so many photos because I shoot 3-5 frames of every obstacle I have a good view of so I can build story boards showing a sequence.

Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Jim Poor] #23165
06/01/09 08:17 PM
06/01/09 08:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
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TN
Jim, I thought the same as David. Though it is a sharp, well framed photo, it is the dogs BUTT. Not just his tail but his butt!

It would have been one I deleted. I delete anything I do not find saleable. It takes up space and make you look like you shoot bad photos.

I can see the progressive jumping composite, but, this would not fit in that.

Jim, you way too advanced to be molly coddled about stuff like this

Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Julie] #23166
06/01/09 08:49 PM
06/01/09 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2008
Virginia, USA
Jim Poor Offline OP
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Jim Poor  Offline OP
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Well, I wouldn't make it the gallery preview or anything, but had the dog looked left to the handler instead of right at the ring crew person, it probably would have changed the angle to something a little less "direct."

The first thing I did when I saw it was laugh.

Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Jim Poor] #23167
06/01/09 09:17 PM
06/01/09 09:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline
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Jim Garvie  Offline
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Florida
Jim,
I hate to echo both David and Julie but they're right: wrong angle. It's like when owners send me photos of their dog in the Conformation ring taken 3/4 from the rear. Sorry, wrong angle; bad photo; not usable.

As David says, if you have these types of shots in your file folders then maybe you're taking too many shots from the wrong angles on the dogs. Knowing which angles owners will buy is the key.

Not only that, but this is a tough crew and we won't let you get away with posting that kind of stuff .

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Jim Poor] #23168
06/01/09 09:42 PM
06/01/09 09:42 PM
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DavidRamey Offline
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After I turned professional, probably the hardest thing I had to learn was when NOT to shoot. If you offer agility people too many choices, they won't make up their minds and won't buy cutting into your sales. If I shoot (for example)Novice Jumpers with Weaves, I will end up with between 400 to 700 photos, depending on how many dogs were entered in the class. I will delete between 15 to 35. My keeper rate is that high. I started photographing professionally using Nikon manual focus film equipment. When you have to pay for film & processing up front, you learn how to shoot the peak of the action without motor driving your shutter to death. At a jump, I take ONE photo, that is all I need. I will "machine gun" my camera in the weave poles to catch many different facial expressions of the dog. I sometimes will "machine gun" my camera on the A frame to catch a sequence going over the apex of the A frame. If I shoot a 3 shot series at a jump, I normally would get 3 shots of a dog jumping with the jump showing in only in the 2nd photo unless the dog is real slow. My camera will shoot 8 frames a second. Probably the biggest sales tool I have is my viewing stations and probably not for the reason you think. Of course, they do increase sales at an event because people get to look at the photos while they are still in a buying mood. But the biggest asset of my viewing computers is instant feed back from the dog handlers. Listening to them talk amoungst themselves while they look at photos tells you what shots THEY are looking for and what shots you DON'T have. This is very valuable sales information and believe me, when I hear a customer say they are looking for "X type of photo", the very next run they have with that dog, I get "x type of photo" for them. I never take any photo, unless I know what I am shooting and why I am shooting it, otherwise it is a waste of my time and a waste of my customer's time looking through a bunch of meaningless photos.

Jim, you are a talented photographer, but you lack the ability to harness and channel that talent toward your goal. You are getting better and you are learning. Don't waste your shots on pointless photos and learn when NOT to shoot. It is probably the hardest thing I had to learn when I was up and coming in my profession.


David Ramey Photography
Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: DavidRamey] #23169
06/01/09 10:26 PM
06/01/09 10:26 PM
Joined: May 2008
Virginia, USA
Jim Poor Offline OP
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Jim Poor  Offline OP
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Virginia, USA
I have actually been listening (though some things sink in slowly) when you guys say how crazy I am for shooting so much.

For this two-day trial there were only about 7K photos total with three photographers on the first day and one on the second day. Then again, it was outdoors so the light wasn't an issue.

The next trial is inside again so I'll probably shoot at least that much by myself with only one camera.

Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Jim Poor] #23170
06/02/09 09:44 AM
06/02/09 09:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline
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Jim Garvie  Offline
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Florida
Jim,
David's experience is immensely valuable for you given what you've been shooting recently. I don't shoot many Agility events but when I do, I look at David's images before I go just to remind myself what I should be looking for.

In my first Agility Event, a USDA event, I took -- and sold -- a lot of platform shots. Most photographers were going for jumps and weaves action shots (which I also took) but were ignoring the platform stays where you could get a great head study or resting shot. I also sold interaction shots going into the ring and coming out. I sold them because they were different and because they showed the relationship between dog and owner/handler.

What convinced me they were the right answer was listening to the exhibitors discuss the images after that first day. As David says, the handlers will tell you what they are looking for. If they've been doing this for a while, they have tons of photos. So you need to give them some stuff they don't have. Linda would be doing the selling during the second day while I was doing the shooting and she'd come over and tell me what to look for with particular teams based on their feedback. We do the same thing now with ring candids -- Linda talks to the owners and finds out what they've never gotten (it's almost always a great moving shot) and we try to fill that void.

You are a very talented photographer and a very bright guy. Less shooting and more listening and you can be very successful in this particular field which I consider one of the most difficult in dog sports.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Too bad this jump was in the wrong direction! [Re: Jim Garvie] #23171
06/02/09 10:15 AM
06/02/09 10:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
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Julie  Offline
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TN
Its the whole work smarter, not harder principle. 10's of thousands of photos just make you work your butt off. Shoot for what sells and not things that won't. It will keep you from burn out down the road

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