Sheesh guys, I would never do that. I am very aware of the rules and also of being considerate to the other photographers. I always get permission from the club putting on the show first and I pay my vendors fee. It's all on the up and up. I would never go to an event and take photos and sell them without having permission first. I go to a lot of events where they already have a photographer and I just take photos for the practice, I went to a horse show recently for instance where a good friend of mine was showing and I didn't even send her the photos I took of her because I didn't want to jeopardize a potential sale for the official photographer. I didn't mention selling candids to the OP at the dog show because it really didn't have time to come up, if he had asked outright what I was doing or if it would have been easy to work into the conversation I would not have kept it from him. I'm sure I will be having the conversation with the OP at some point, this was only the second dog show I had permission to sell at. None of the OP around here anyway do candid type shots and I never do anything similar to the show shots they do but even so if they were really against me taking the candid shots I would stop doing it even if the club gave me permission. I am not out to step on any toes or cause any problems.

I do so like your work. It is great to see the variety that you do.
I am updating my website and hopefully you will see how much we have in common when it is up and running.

CC is short for Country Charm. Nice guess and he would be a great endurance horse, just his owner is not!
Kodak is my agility dog and I can hardly keep up with her.

If any of you have received the latest Rangefinder Magizine, (got mine today) I would love to hear how you feel about the article on page 8. The work by Darwin Wiggett is really fun for me. I love seeing the imagination others have.

I didn't figure you would. I think Jim had mentioned a few times that he wouldnt' mind someone doing candids, as long as they didn't try and horn in on the win shots.

If you're paying a vendor fee, than I am sure the OP already knows what capacity you are there in, and is evidenced in him hanging out with you.

I wasn't aware of these kinds of things, is the only reason I brought it up. On EPN, the equine photographers were talking about this and get pretty hot. Though, taking pictures of friends is not the same thing as selling shots of everyone on your website

I try and make shots that are better than what your average joe with their new rebel will shoot. Now, I don't always, but, that is my goal so that people will buy

I think it is just one of those areas that you(me!) really don't know unless someone points it out. I don't want you to feel like I was pointing fingers at you.

Dee Dee, as I said, don't take this personal. It is something that needs repeated every so often to remind us to stay ethical and to not cross the line even by accident. We are in a changing world where Ethics is becoming a bad word or an obsolete world. In sports photography, it has gotten so bad that I have competitors go to the school and ask the school permission to "just photograph their kid" and then take photos of everybody, post them on their web site, undercut my prices, pass out fliers in the stadium and I have to pay the school a commission and they don't because they are just "photographing their kid" or "just photographing a friend" or during the regional basketball tournaments " I am just photographing for practice". This last episode, the photographer turned out to be a pedofile. this hurts our reputations as photographers and it hurts our industry to make it harder to make a living in our preferred profession. Like I said, don't take it personal Dee Dee and I would never insinuate that you would do any of these things. Just a friendly reminder to be careful not to step on anybody's toes.

Wow, this subject transfers from wedding photography, sports, horse and dog show... a couple of questions enter my mind. First, when you have a show photographer and then booth space with portrait photographers, who's payment to the club (organization) takes the top of the pole? Can the portrait photographer shoot any part of the show?
Then, when you have an artist who is collecting reference material for their artwork, where does that enter the discussion?
With almost everyone holding a camera at every event these days, copying work is taken to a new level. I have been at shows where people want to use my background to take their own pictures!
I really hate to have the public as an enemy, but protecting our work is an on going battle. And fighting other photographers makes me feel like part of the paparazzi.

I worked on a committee for PPA (Professional Photographers of America) that had us go out and test sites that might copy an image without approval. I see this issue as part of the same "big picture" on copyright. I do not think we can
control joe public. But sites like this can help us understand Joe Photographer. Glad to be part of this group.

I am so non confrontational, how do you tell the public they can't use your backdrop?? Just "no"? Or do you do it in a politically correct manner?

I would think an artist taking their own shots to paint, is completely different from a photographer selling photos. There are some artists I am happy to let paint my photos. I do want to be asked though.

I really didn't mean to hijack this thread for a new discussion, so I am going to start a new thread under Shop Talk about ethics.

I am locking this thread as David has started a thread on ethics in the Shop Talk forum. Please feel free to start a new thread on dressage.

Cheers
James