The Frustration of Rescue Work

Glad to hear this one has a happy ending! FWIW, I'd love to take her too, but our zoning limits us to five

Our zoning limits us to 2 but I've had as many as 7 dogs living here full-time and several others coming in and out for weeks at a time. And the President of the Homeowners Association lives next door . We can't take in all the Rescues or we'd be like the people with 100 cats living in squalor. We do what we can and hopefully that will result in good dogs finding good homes. Believe me, bringing her home with me did creep into my consciousness for a nano-second or two .

Jim

I am glad that she got out of AC. I foster American Eskimos through a rescue group out of Boston. I wish we could save them all also. I have 5 dogs already, so I can only foster 1 dog at a time.

Penny

Gotta love those Eskies

We currently have 5 dogs but one is 13 years old and another is 13 weeks old. Taking in a dog out of Animal Control anywhere in the country and you know you'll have to deal with kennel cough or canine flu which means my own dogs would be at risk, especially the oldest and the youngest. So that clearly limits what I can do from the standpoint of fostering.

Good for you for fostering the AE Rescues. All we need is about a million more people like you.

Jim

It's probably a good thing you are ....clear... on the far side of the country from me. And we rent and dogs aren't allowed. Although we're now on good enough terms with the landlord I'm thinking one of these days I might be able to change her mind on that. Hopefully you'll be able to post soon that she has a great new home.

Diana

We are heavily involved in Maltese rescue for the American Maltese Association. Local animal shelters will notify us when they a Maltese for adoption... Yeah! really?

Maltese are a highly adoptable breed and the only time we get notified about a Maltese in the amimal shelter is when the shelters deem the animal unadoptable. They would, of course, rather get the adoption fees rather than to turn the animal over to us.

Never-the-less, we have found great homes for "unadoptable" Maltese. Over the past couple of years, we have found homes for a deaf maltese and a blind maltese. We have found a home for a Maltese with diabetes with a dentist who also has diabetes. And, of course, we have found homes for Maltese who had been running the streets and who looked just terrible due to flea and/or tick infestations and just plain lack of care.

Koko was one of these. When I saw this little guy, my heart went out to him. I also thought that we would have him forever. He had no coat over his rear body and the coat up front was terrible. he was skittish and terribly frightened of big dogs. However with some TLC over a couple of months, he looked good and he even accepted out Goldendoodle, Holly, as no threat.

Sweetheart came to us full of sores and scabs from fleas and ticks. She was pregnant and gave birth to a pair of puppies the day after we began fostering her. She was a wonderful mother and, even after her terrible life, she has a great personality. We know that she got a good home because we adopted her into our family. Her two pups were adopted into loving "forever homes" also.

Richard,
local Animal Control contacts us, too. With Rotties, they don't last long in AS -- if they are not adopted within a month, they usually are put down. The fact is, most folks, especially with kids, want small fluffy dogs. And many of the Rottweilers that are picked up off the street are not dogs you would want to place into a family situation.

We've had our share of Rotties that were totally bald due to mange; dogs that were deaf or blind. It takes a very special home to care for these "special" cases. But the bulk of our Rescue efforts are with Rottweilers that have good, sound temperament but have never been in a home that nurtured them or kept them off the street. Such was the situation with our Marion Louise. She wore down her teeth trying to chew through the chain that was on her when I first met her. She needed to be with people and she lived the first part of her life chained in the back yard.

Rescue work can be heartbreaking. Every time I turn down a dog because its temperament is questionable, I ache. But I'd be far more upset if that dog was adopted and then injured a child. Rottweilers are large, very powerful dogs. In the hands of some people, they are weapons. So we have to be very careful about the dogs and even more careful about the adopting families.

Congratulations for your work in Maltese Rescue. After all is said and done, placing a deserving dog in a great home is one of the greatest joys in dogs.

Jim

Yesterday, I was asked to check two more Rotties at Orlando Animal Control. The first was a relatively young girl -- 3 to 4 years old -- who has obviously been used for breeding and has not received a whole lot of human contact. She's sweet but about 15 lbs. underweight with pretty severe eye infections. She did not come to me in the yard but when I went to her and kneeled, she came over, took some Milk Bones and was happy to let me examine her. She likes people but clearly has not had much contact with them. At my recommendation, Gulfstream Rottweiler Rescue has agreed to take her in for adoption.

The second girl is a senior -- probably 9 or 10. She's overweight, her nails are so long they curl back on themselves and when she was found by OAC, some kids had "playfully" painted her entire body. OAC shaved her down. In the yard, she came over to me immediately and accepted my petting, mouth exam and physical exam. But she's very tired and definitely has been through a lot lately. One of the volunteers and I trimmed her nails and she accepted the pedicure without complaint. She appears to have mammary tumors and is probably heartworm positive. In spite of my own personal feelings, I had to recommend that GGARR not take her in for adoption because I frankly don't think anyone will adopt her even if she survives the treatment for heartworm.

Last night, I didn't get much sleep. That old girl kept creeping into my dreams and this morning I wrote to the folks in Rescue that I work with and asked if there was anything we could do to give the girl a little more time even it was just to bring her into a place that would give her some love until it was time to put her down. Well, I guess everyone had the same thoughts because as soon as I sent out my email, 5 people responded with offers to find a place to bring her. Ten minutes ago, the owner of a Boarding Kennel contacted us to say she would keep the girl for a couple of weeks but that she had a friend that specializes in Senior Rescue and they would take her after the quarantine period. There were a number of people who had tears in their eyes when they read that, including me.

Linda and I had actually agreed to take her if we couldn't find anybody else. You can't do effective Rescue work if you get emotionally involved. On the other hand, you can't get involved in Rescue unless you love the dogs. I'll be transporting my old girl -- Emma -- to her new place this weekend. It will be one of the most joyful transports I've ever had.

Jim

Glad to hear she's going to get another shot.

It is probably way too soon, but we're considering another as well.

Jim,
people deal with the loss of a dog in different ways. Some need to replace them as soon as possible. That's my neighbors, Tiffany, Tim and the kids. I guess they feel that having a new dog to love takes away the pain of the one they lost.

We have always believed that it's OK to mourn the one that has gone. Two weeks after Rowdy and Crash left us, we discovered that Juneau was pregnant. I'm not sure we would have decided to keep a puppy had we not lost them but the excitement of having puppies on the way definitely helped us deal with the loss of both boys.

But sometimes stuff just happens that makes it impossible to say "no". You'll know when it's right. The right dog will need the right home and you'll just know.

As for Emma, several people responded to my email by saying that although it would be difficult for them, they would take her. Linda and I felt the same way. Even if it were just to find out that she has cancer and not much time. At least that time would be with people who care and would love her. And when the time came, would hold her until she left us. I think we owe that to all good dogs. We would have done it for Emma.

Jim

Yeah, I know. We waited over a year when Sam left us.

We took in a senior with "end-stage" kidney disease, but she's been with us two years now. I'm so glad the rescue took her in and let us take her.

I've been toying with the idea of another Corgi, but think I might like a Fluffy. There is a litter in the state right now with four Fluffies. Two red, and Two tri. Two boys, two girls . . .

If we go that route, it would be our first non-rescue dog in 16 years.

JP, I vote for one of those Sphynx dogs with the toupees.

LoL

Jim,
forgive my canine ignorance, but what the heck is a "fluffy"?

Jim

It is a coat defect in the Pembroke Welsh Corgi that makes them long, soft-coated.

Makes them look almost like a Sheltie-Corgi mix. Cute as can be, but disqualified for conformation.

I've got some photos of a few around my files somewhere.

Here's a link to some photos (not mine): http://community.webshots.com/album/245730048gQodQB?start=24


And a bit of discussion:

http://www.gocorgi.com/forums/general-corgi-discussions/1302-fluffy-corgi-questions.html

So it's like a long-coat Rottie. OK. We have one, Harry Potter. In Rotties -- as in Corgis -- it's not a "defect" but rather a recessive gene. When you get a recessive on both sides of the genetic equation, as Mendel has said, you will get 25% of the offspring that have the trait, 25% that do not have the trait nor do they carry it and 50% that are carriers. Harry Potter is a Rowdy son and he's definitely a long-coat since his mom, Magic, carried the same gene.

With long-coats, the gene carries other characteristics such as outstanding temperament and excellent conformation which is why lots of folks would like to breed them for selling. Not an ethical solution. Long-coats are not acceptable according to the breed standard and all long-coats in Rotties should be neutered as soon as possible. We don't consider it something to be desired. We accept it as reality and live with the consequences but we try to breed it out of the breed. With genetic markers, we've been able to identify those dogs carrying the recessive gene and make sure they are not bred to other dogs that also carry the gene. That will, ultimately, remove the characteristic from the breed.

It's kinda like breeding Brazilian Tea-cup Rotties -- Rotties that are so under the standard in terms of size that they resemble beefier French Bulldogs. Not ethical. Lots of sales potential but lots of problems inherent in that type of breeding as well.

Why not a good old standard Corgi? They are great dogs and they have the coat they have because, over time, it's been deemed the most acceptable coat for the work they do. Why would you want a dog whose claim to fame is a "fault"?

Jim

They really are cute and very pretty. I think my biggest beef with a fluffy is that the people breeding for a fault probably are not the most responsible breeders.

I don't know enough about corgis to know if it is just something that happens in many litters or if it is a trait you have to choose to breed for.

Jim G, I looked up long haired rotties and I have never seen one! They almost look like they are mixed with flat coated retrievers!

Julie,
I'll send you some pics of Harry Potter. He's totally adorable and very, very fluffy. We take him down about every two months for comfort but he's really a great dog. And he has pheromones that are very interesting: girls love him but so do the boys! And he's definitely heterosexual.

I agree about those breeders who breed specifically for a fault like coat, color or size. They are definitely not the most responsible breeders. Long-coat Rotties are adorable -- and I could sell as many as I could produce -- but they are not correct and, from a breed perspective, they are not what responsible breeders should try to produce. It all comes down to why people breed: I breed to improve the breed. I don't breed to sell puppies. The selling of puppies is a consequence of breeding but not the objective. "Designer Breed" folks are into selling puppies. They have no concept of improving the breed nor do they care about it. They care about making money.

That's a fundamental difference between "responsible" breeders and people who breed to make money. Breeding isn't a business and it isn't about quantities and selling. It's about quality and improving the breed for the next generation. The folks that do it for money invariably do it too often, too much and too badly.

Jim

The fluffies sometimes just happen.

I agree totally that breeding in an effort to produce a "faulty" dog is a bad bad idea, but when they do pop up, somebody has to have a home for them.

There are, unfortunately unethical breeders that try specifically to produce the Fluffies. Some even market them as "Rare Long-haired Corgi."

In this case, the breeder doesn't breed for them, but occasionally ends up with them in the litter. A client & friend of mine has a mix of "normal" and fluffy corgis and suggested I contact this specific breeder.

From what I understand so far, the agreement would be that the dogs must be altered so they cannot reproduce. I've asked around a few corgi clubs, rescues and other friends about the breeder but haven't heard back from anyone yet.

Just so happens that there is a 6 week old litter with FOUR fluffies. The father was the #1 Corgi in the country in 2007.

Why does the fluffy appeal to me? 1. They are really adorable and 2. There is research linking changes coat type to temperament and the fluffies are held up as "softer" corgis.

I'm hoping to see my friend and get some corgi love at a UKC trial I'm shooting this weekend.

OK, then it isn't an effort to produce them, its jut recessive genes that happen. Yes, pet homes are needed for all the dogs and having a different coat isn't a negative when it is spayed or neutered. Really no different than a whippet who doesn't make it into or goes out of standard(height wise) Some people like teeny tiny whippets and they make as good of a pet as one in the middle of the height standard. Or one with a china blue eye, there are pet people who think that is really cool.

Both things to me are really awful because too big or small or a blue eye(s) knocks them out of any lure coursing, which I think is fun for everyone. Those that happen must be placed very carefully into a home you are sure would have no desire to run the dogs.

Jim,
If it's the same genetic marker that produces the long-coat in Rotties, it can be tested for. We did that with Presley and Juneau in our last litter because Juneau is a Rowdy granddaughter and Presley is a Magic son and Rowdy's long-coated litter was out of Magic. Both Juneau and Presley are free of having the trait or carrying the recessive gene.

That behavioral thing about dogs with the coats being longer/softer is true. I've known over a dozen long-coated Rotties and each one was a total doll. Our Harry Potter is exceptionally sweet. One warning though: the longer coats are a bit of a pain to maintain. Harry's is very fine and mats easily. So we take him down about every 6 weeks or so.

Good luck with the search and have fun with lots of puppies. That's the really fun thing about the process.

Jim

I just got a note back from the breeder saying she doesn't release the puppies until after their 10-week shots.

That's on one hand, understandable, but on the other it cuts a little too deep into their critical period of socialization for me.

Not a complete deal killer, but not the best either. We'll see.

She's about 5 hours away, but I may try to go visit this week.

The puppy is better off being socialized with the mother/littermates than with new homes as a rule. I won't let any go until 9w. I am guessing that breeder is using the newer, later vaccination protocal and making sure that they have adequate immunity before releasing them. As long as they are being exposed to things at the breeders home, 10w is not late or missing any critical socialization time with you.

The dogs that grow up the worst are the ones given over at 5-6w of age. They miss critical time with their dam. Having had a litter here and watching what Cinnamon did with them, I understand now. There is no human who can do what she did.

I promise my home is better socialization than any other home. Between my kids, the kids who come in and out, the dogs here and having the dam with the puppies until they leave, no home can give what I can.

A puppy will bond with its new owner pretty much at any time. you have a small window for the dams to really teach the puppies dog manners

I'd be happy taking a puppy from your home or Jim's home because I know the lengths you go to to socialize.

I'm not so comfortable with "just anyone" like that though.

Of course, this breeder may very well go out of her way to socialize as well, but I won't know that until I talk to her, meet the pups & dogs and talk to a bunch of other folks.


On vaccinations, part of my dog trainer apprentice program involves studying vaccinations as well as critical periods of socialization. The latest research shows that puppies from properly vaccinated dams are much better protected than previously believed, which allows them to be socialized publicly much earlier than before.

The trouble with the previously accepted protocols is that the keep puppies "sequestered" well beyond the first and most critical socialization period.

In addition to the fluffy corgis, we're considering another sheltie. There is one breeder that has a 15 week old sheltie left from a litter, but it is well known that they don't do any socialization, so unfortunately, that one is pretty much out.

If I'm going to get a dog that isn't already being well socialized by week 9, then I might as well get another rescue as the problems are about the same.

Your right, you really just don't know how a dog is socialized unless you know them. The only thing mine are not socialized to is cats, because I do not have any. I had puppies leave from here and live fine with cats.

Mine start going outside when they start eating gruel. They aren't going to get any different germs from my yard than they are my floors. I want them to be on carpet, hardwood floors, rocks and grass by the time they are 4 weeks.

I do early neurologic stimulation http://ahimsadogtraining.com/handouts/early_neurological_stimulation_en.pdf Which may or not be beneficial, but, I do it anyhow. I vacuum around the their box, the TV is going so they hear that, the kids are screaming and they have friends over. So, there is no lack in experiences and stuff like that

I have to say one of the best things ever was just letting Cinnamon take care of them. She picked the most dominant puppy and she would roll it over and over if she felt it was getting out of line. It was slightly disturbing to watch. When one would go to its new home, the next most dominant would get the treatment. It was an interesting thing to see.

I can't wait to have a litter of puppies again. Dottie has achieved all the titles I wanted her to achieve and I think I have gotten closer to a dog for her. Brings back in one of her ancestors that was an amazing dog

Yep, and several other surfaces too like rubber and sand.

Those of us who learn & train together play "pass the puppy" as much as possible.

The last two trials I've done, I've been wearing my air-cast boot and there have been three dogs totally freaked out by it. One is a 15 week sheltie (brother of the one still available) and the other two are older. So, we started with me standing still and walking the dog by and moved closer and closer and moved to putting a treat on top of my foot so the dogs would take it.

The puppy is totally fine with it now and the other two dogs are better.

In our house, Marion Louise does the dominance training and Cassidy Ann does the nurturing. It's fascinating to watch Marion take on the girl puppies and drop them and then hump them. She never uses her mouth on them but she makes sure they know that she's not to be trifled with. Not bad for a 13-year old.

Cassidy lets them know she's the queen in the house but gives them lots of licks and only growls when they really deserve it. She's teaching Moxie now letting her play with her when she shows respect but turning it off the second Moxie tries to treat Cassidy like another puppy. The boys are useless . They think Moxie is the cutest thing they've ever seen and all they want to do is play with her. Soon. She's now 40 lbs. at 14 weeks.

I'm with Julie in terms of when we start the socialization but, frankly, it actually starts with children, neighbors and prospective owners when the eyes/ears open at 14 days. We make sure people sanitize themselves before they handle the pups but nothing is better than having them handled by as many people as possible as they start developing their social skills. Like Julie, we start taking them outside when they start the weaning process at 4 - 4.5 weeks. But by then, they've met most of the Central Florida community and are pretty comfortable being handled by kids as well as adults.

Jim, I just shot two Sheltie Specialties this weekend and while I love the breed, the pups can be a little skittish for my taste. Because the show dogs are shown natural with free-bait stacking instead of hand-stacking, the dogs tend to be a little hand-shy. Just my observation and by no means universal. But I tend to prefer Corgis in terms of temperament.

Our pups are trained to turn on the Tivo when it's time to record a show. They tend to watch a lot of bad TV during the formative weeks. Sensory stimulation is part of our plan as well. They need to be exposed to noises and be comfortable around noisy environments. Especially if they're going to be a show dog but the training is good for all dogs. BTW, Rotties have notoriously weak auto-immune systems so our vaccination protocol is 5 weeks, 8 weeks and 12 weeks but we pull a titre at 8 weeks and every litter we've ever had was positive for Parvo immunity at 8 weeks so we're pretty comfortable giving them lots of exposure from 8 weeks of age on.

Puppies are great. I absolutely adore them. But if we didn't breed, I'd only look at Rescues. There are so many of them and there are only a few really great homes. When I look at Marion Louise, I am so happy we took her in. She has filled our home with love and with laughter. I simply could not love any dog any more than I love Marion Louise.

Jim