Do Any Of You Work With Pet Stores

I was asked to take some Halloween photos at a local pet store; in exchange for a store credit ($75), a table to advertise my business on and the photos will have my name on them. The store will be covering the costs of the prints. I was so excited that someone called me that I jumped at the chance and signed up and agreed.

Today, a different store called me, (same chain). They were looking for someone to take Christmas photos and my name was given to them. Of course I am excited to work with them as well but I am wondering what I should actually be charging and asking for in order to have me there.

To those of you who work with pet stores or have worked with pet stores what have been your past experiences and do you have any guidelines or advice to offer.

Nicole, while I'm delighted with your opportunity, you need to be aware of what they typically charge in those venues. Based on what I've see here in FL, it isn't enough to cover my costs of being there. But, that depends on volume, expectations and what you need to make to break even. Often, that's a good business decision. Congrats about the opportunity. Now, figure out what makes sense from a price/cost standpoint.

Jim

Nicole,
Like Jim, I have not seen events like that worth the time and effort. That being, I have a few questions. Have you ever done a shoot like this before? Are you going to have someone assisting you? (You'll need it. Keeping the paperwork straight and helping get the subjects set and away and answering any questions takes on or two people.) If so, do you provide the help or do they? If you do, how much will that cost you?

Are they advertising the event? How long is the Halloween shoot? Are you supplying the background and props? If so, how much is that going to set you back? If they are, is it going to put your photographic images in the best light(metaphorically speaking)?

Are you not getting any portion of the proceeds from the prints? What are the charging for the photos? Single images or packages. Are you printing on site? Are they using your lab or are you printing. If they are using a lab of their choice, do they meet your standards?

Bringing in a photographer for seasonal pictures is a loss leader promotion used to bring in traffic for the store. They should be making little to nothing as it is an advertising expense.

It all sounds as if they have hired you as contract labor with a store credit that cost them 50% to 70% of your salary. They're not even dipping into their petty cash!

I once was a Santa for pet Christmas pictures for a non-profit fundraiser. We had 70 stressed out dog and cat subjects and their owners run through in 3 hours! I will never do that again as long as I live!!!

Now, if you want to make this work for a Christmas shoot, consider this. Can you give them your answer after the Halloween shoot? It will give both parties the opportunity to evaluate the success of the first event and give you the perspective you need to negotiate a new deal if needed to make it worth your while.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but it's your name and reputation on the line. I know you're excited about getting your name "out there", but at what cost.

Doug

Hey Doug, thanks for commenting. WOW, you certainly put a lot out there for me to think about.

The Halloween shoot is a free photo day so they are not charging. The Christmas photos I believe they mentioned that they charge $5 or $10. I am not being paid any portion of the proceeds from the prints. Now that you mention it, I think this is something that I should defiantly consider asking about; maybe not on this shoot but definitely on any future shoots. The customers are getting a single 4x6 that will be printed at a local lab of my choice. The store will be reimbursing me for the prints. Customers will have to pick-up their print at the store.

My assistant will be my husband or a good friend of mine who works with the animal shelter and has helped out with photo days like this before. In either case they are also volunteering their time.

Yes, the store has been advertising for the Halloween photos. Unfortunately, they asked for my services after their ad campaign was printed so my name is not on it. I would like my company name to be on any future ads. In both cases, the shoot is just one day for a couple of hours, 11am-4pm. I will be supplying lights and a backdrop if needed and the store will supply props/Santa. Another option for the Halloween shoot is photographing outdoors but for the Christmas photos this would not be possible in my area.

My objective is to book a couple of private studio sessions. If I manage to do this than I will feel like I have succeeded. I will be allowed to bring samples of my work and set up a table. As I mentioned in a previous thread, I have been finding it very hard to get my name out there and reach my target market, no one knows about me. I will be collecting addresses and email addresses. Having this type of exposure sounded like a good thing to me – but maybe not as you pointed out. I think shall give it a go for the Halloween photos and yes both parties can evaluate success before for the Christmas photos.

It will be good experience one way or the other.

That said:

1. They aren't paying you enough.
2. The kind of folks that come to those type of events generally aren't the kind of clients you want for private sessions. Of course, there are exceptions, but those who want to spend $10 on a photo are usually not likely to spend $1000 on photos later.

Sorry for the short reply, but I'm in GA right now with limited access.

Nicole,

I hope you didn't find my reply "too much". I was tired after a long day and the portion of my brain which tells me to think before I speak was turned off. I am glad that you have open eyes as you approach this avenue.

There is one more thing that I would like to suggest. Take extra care to set "your" table to market your style and vision. Make it an visual oasis within the the scene. Too many photographers don't take the time to market their images correctly. Use some form of table cloth or covering to set your framed images visually. If you have access to an easel (or two preferably) that you might use to display large poster size mounts of your images and set behind or the side to frame the table. Gator board is a good way to go. It will set you back some, but you will have them for future events and it will call attention to how striking a pet photo can be. It might not get you that private session from some in line for the free photo, but it could draw the attention of someone else in the store who may fit you private sitting profile.

Good luck to you. Doug

Never Doug, I appreciate the words of advice. It's always great to hear from someone who speaks the truth based on their past experiences. I've considered it, and true they are not paying me enough and Jim is correct in pointing out someone who stands in line for a free photo isn't likely to purchase a private session but it could lead to someone who might. I'll do the Halloween photo and go from there. It should be fun, exciting and a learning experience regardless and it's something that I wanted to test out anyhow. I'm pretty excited and optimistic about it!

And as my one good friend pointed out to me yesterday, do it this year, because next year I might be so busy with bookings that this type of store thing will be more of a nuisance and I won't do it. But then again, I might like it too!

UPDATE!

So the Halloween Celebration was today! Just over 50 in all, dogs, a few cats and a bunny! I loved it! Of course I'm thinking that Christmas photos will bring in double the people.

Now for the questions:

There was an adoption group on sight today and I'm not opposed to working with this type of charity, in fact I want too, but no one told me that the free photo day was more of a fundraiser for the rescue. The rescue put a donation jar on my table and people though they were donating money to me but it was all going to the charity. I felt a little cheated but it's for charity so how can you be made at that? So when the free photo day is for a rescue group I guess I shouldn't really be charging the store anything for my time (right)? I guess I need to clarify this for future events.


Now I'm not planning on selling anything other then the free 4x6 that they are getting. If they want quality work and to purchase wall portraits, greeting cards and prints etc..., I recommend a session in my studio. So when it's not for a rescue group what's that magical number that you should be charging for my time in store? Is it the same per hour that I would charge in my studio or is it a per photo rate?

Nicole,

I haven't thought about pricing , but the idea of it being a charity event sponsored by the pet store does not mean you have to give your time away. You were hired to do the shoot and provide a service. If you want to donate your time for the rescue group that's between you and the rescue group.

The other thing. Your table should be your table. I would have asked store management to provide another place for the tip jar. Not cool!

Doug

I would have moved the jar or at least made it clear where the money was going.

When you say you're not planning on selling anything beyond the included 4x6, don't cut yourself short. If the photos are good, show them, and if the owners want to buy more, sell them.

Pricing for rescue events is pretty much a matter of personal taste. I don't charge the group anything when I do a fundraiser event. I normally split the session fee 50/50 with them, and keep any print sales for myself.

I'm doing fewer and fewer mass events compared to what I did previously, but one I have coming up for a holiday fund-raiser goes like this:

$40 session fee which includes a choice of one 8x10 or one digital file as well as a coupon for a discount on an in-studio private session. The rescue gets half of the session fee, and half of the session fee for anyone who takes me up on the in-studio session as well.

My in-studio session is $350 and the discount is $150 so that leaves $100 for me and $100 for the rescue.

I've really gotten away from mass events because although I can run 20-30 folks through a mini-session, $600 for me and $600 for the rescue is hardly a big payday. Yes, every little bit counts, but I if I can do 10 in-studio sessions in a more relaxed environment, $1000 for each of us is a good bit better. Plus, print sales are much better from folks who will pay $200 for a session than they (normally) are from folks who will pay $40. Of course, there are exceptions, but not many.

I also do an in-studio mini session for $50 for a holiday set, no BG changes, etc.

Thanks guys! I thought this was wrong but I'm such an easy going person that I never want to offend anyone. And when I kind of brought it up at the end, the rescue's response was "oh, no, people knew they were donating to us, we always have a donation box." They might always have a donation box but I don't think they would have brought in the money they did and wouldn't have adopted out all 10 of their kittens without having me there. And people did make a "donation" directly towards me when they put it in the jar. Oh well, I may have got burnt a little this time, just another learning experience, I need to get some more business sense into my head.

Since the stores are advertising the events as "free" photos I feel weird asking them to pay me. I don't mind volunteering my time to charity either but I think I need to implement my own donation box, maybe a $2-$3 suggested donation per customer. I'll put put a sign out that says we are volunteering our time for the day and to help us continue to support these events please donate so they can continue to be free!

Hopefully this won't be meet with resistance and I won't look stupid for asking to do this. I just feel like I should get something when shooting on such a large scale. For charities I already volunteer/offer my time to take free photos of their fosters and sheltered animals and I do fundraising, willing to donate 10% of sales back to them too. Plus all the door prises they want for their pasta dinners. I know they need all the help they can get and I hope I don't sound greedy but I have to be paid too. Ugh, I'm a bit tired, frustrated and confused! Thanks so much for helping you guys help me make sense of it all!

Have I ever mentioned how much I love my husband! He comes up with the best ideas! I was/am still very torn about to to approach the store managers about this sensitive subject (yes I realize that I am dwelling on this far too much) and he suggested that I put out a "Tip Jar" instead of donation box along with my sign that says I volunteer my time to help keep events like this free." I feel comfortable doing this. YAY.

Nicole,

You just stated in your reply about the tip jar idea that "I volunteer my time to help keep events like these free". That is not accurate as to the way you described it initially.

You said the store offered you the shoot for a $75 store credit. That is a fee no matter how under valued it might have been. Jim and I both wrote our opinion on that matter. Even though it felt like you were working for free, you did negotiate that arrangement. So, putting a tip jar stating you're working for free may not sit well with the store. It is the store that made the photos free to their customers, not you.

You also stated that the store would provide you a table to display your photos and business on. Therefore, the donation box on "your table" should not have been an issue. Embarrassing, perhaps, but it was a point of the agreement.

Which brings me to my main point... CONTRACTS!!! You should have prepared a written agreement in order to keep that points of the agreement clear. This would not leave it up to memory as the details of the agreement.

If you want to be taken seriously as a photographer, the way you conduct the "business side" of the business is as important as your talent as a photographer. I can almost guarantee you that your talents as a photographer were near the bottom of the list as to what the store manager was looking to hire. He was looking for anyone who could shoot an "in focus" photo for a "free" 4x6.

Now, one way you could have made this work to your advantage is this. Tell the manager that your sitting fee for such an event is $500. And that if you here to shoot the event, the agreement would be between the store, rescue group, and you.

The difference between the $500 and the $75 would be a donation write off to the rescue group. You would have a contract between the 3 parties agreeing to your fee, and donation of time and expenses. Those in turn could be used as non-profit donations on your taxes.

If they like working with you and the quality of your work, then then next event can be negotiated at a higher rate, still setting the $500 fee as the baseline. You could negotiate $150 in cash, and the $350 balance as your donation to a non-profit (still a write off).

I know you want to get your work seen, but you also want to be seen as a professional.

Doug

Doug, what you describe actually amounts to a complex donation of time, which is NOT a tax write off.

The store would actually have to pay the $500 and the photographer would have to make a separate donation for tax purposes.

What Jim says is correct!

Jim

Fretless, Jim P and Jim G, thank you for the input! It is much appreciated. In all of my excitement to get some work and get out there I under valued myself and I am now regretting it. Don't get me wrong, I actually really liked doing the event. I just feel a bit overworked and cheated for money and I am trying to find a reasonable way to bring this up and fix for future events so everyone will be happy. I'm just trying to come up with some ideas and options rather quickly.

This is how I would do it, but keep in mind that I know nothing about facilities in your area that will do the event. We have several pet supermarket type places here, one with a warehouse space that I use (the rescues make the arrangements) often for these things. They are happy to draw in customers by hosting the events for free.

In either of these situations, a rescue that will promote the event is crucial. For the mass events, I've done as many as 30 sessions in 6 hours and as few as 2 in five hours based on how well the event was promoted.

Of course, promote it yourself as well, but the rescues have (or at least should have) a large mailing list.

For the second idea, the promotion still applies, but have them promote it permanently on their web page, at adoption events and by inserting flyers/postcards into any adoption packages.



****
Dear Rescue Person,

I'm glad our photo event was successful and I have a few ideas on how it can be even more so.

1. I'd like to arrange a photo fundraiser at [figure out what to do about the location] for 4-5 hours. The session fee would be $40 [pick your own price, but this is what I do for mass events], and would include one 5x7 or one digital file [sized to print at 5x7]. 50% [again, use your own figure] of the session fee would be donated back to the rescue.

2. As an ongoing fundraiser, I'd like to offer a discount of $150 off a private session, which is regularly $350 and donate $100 from each session back to the rescue [use your own numbers].

*****

The mass events are a good start, but you'll eventually find that you work less and make more for both you and the rescue with the higher priced formal sessions.

There are only two groups that I still do mass events for, and that's only twice per year.

Your right, Jim. (I wasn't quite sure on that aspect.) Thanks for the correction.

Doug

Thanks Jim!

I think you need to check with a CPA or tax person on that, I really have no idea what the laws are in Canada. If you were in the US Jim is correct.

This doesn't sound quite right to me. A competing tip jar with the rescue that you are trying to help out seems wrong.

On another subject, did you get model releases signed for your files...and more importantly did you capture everyone's name, address, email, etc for future marketing purposes?

Nicole,
there are really two issues here:

1. did you get some experience; some nice portfolio pieces and have a good time?

2. did they use you -- in the worst possible sense of the word "use"?

Only you can answer the first question. But what you answer will go a long of way in mitigating the answer to the second question which is: "yes, unquestionably."

Does that mean you're a fool? Not at all. If you gained experience and didn't lose any $$, then you had a net gain. If you also lost $$, then you got taken. So, make sure it doesn't happen again. In the long run, we all make "mistakes" on our way to figuring out how to make this avocation work for us. If this was your first, then accept it, make sure you understand what you gained and what you lost, and try to make the next experience work better for you. Because, in the scheme of things, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work at all. I do Rescue. I don't ever ask for anybody to sacrifice their professional abilities to my needs. If I wish to donate my time, I do it. My choice. Nobody manipulates me into doing it. And those that do should be avoided at all costs for all time. Period.

Jim

Hey Preston, you are right, that does sound weird. We are still working out the details for the holiday shoots but the majority of the stores will not have rescue groups on site. The holiday photos are not meant to be a fundraiser for the rescue groups, they are a promotion stunt for the store, so I think tip jar would be okay. I will also be allowed to sale 5x7s, 8x10s, digital files etc . . . for the holiday photos. This was something that I failed to plan for with the Halloween photos.

The Halloween shoot wasn't suppose to be a rescue fundraiser either but because of the rescue's donation box being on my table, it sure seemed like they were taking advantage of my being there. I addressed this issue with the store owner tonight.

Thanks Jim! Your post made a lot of sense. Other then my time, I am not out any money. Having the rescue there was a bit confusing and unexpected. I addressed this tonight with the store owner, I think we are good for the holidays.

All said and done, it really was a good learning experience. I can definitely improve upon it! I will be doing it again!

You pros make it seem so easy, I forget that this is my first run through with this type of stuff and I seek the perfection I see in all of you. Thanks for comments and words of wisdom.

That made me smile! I'm glad that you don't think I'm some sort of fool for honestly trying and giving it my best shot. I have a lot to learn, they certainly don't teach all this real life business stuff in photog school!

Yes for the model release. We did capture everyone's name and pet's name but unfortunately my helper, who was signing everyone in, failed to capture many of their addresses and emails. I don't think she realised the importance of it. And I didn't notice she wasn't doing this until we were half way through the day. I will be sure to get this information when I do the holiday photos.

So I've been on tour with the Pet photos with Santa since November 12th with one last stop to make next Saturday! And after 152 sessions with Santa yesterday, this photographer is sore today!!!! I've been kneeling on floor to take the photos and was wondering if would have been appropriate for me to bring a small stool to sit on instead to save my poor knees and legs.

Absolutely.

I used to shoot agility trials on my knees, but finally got a little smarter and started using a gardening seat. Then I went to a drafting stool.

When I do mass portrait shoots in one day, I use the gardening stool.

Nicole,
after 5 knee operations, I no longer kneel to get my low shots. I either set up my tripod low with an angle finder or I sit on the floor. I've tried gardening stools, pillows, creepers but I find that scootching along on my rump works best for me. On the other hand, getting your subjects off of the floor is probably the better solution long-term. All but the largest dogs can handle a modeling table that's 2 or 3 feet off the floor. In my previous studio, I built a platform that was 18 inches off the floor and put my props on that. It gave me just the added height I needed to be able to sit in my office chair for the shooting. The one basic truism of portraiture is that if you or your subject are in pain, it will show up in the images .

Jim