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I feel betrayed #36786
10/09/11 09:36 AM
10/09/11 09:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Long Island, NY
Diane Offline OP
Journeyman
Diane  Offline OP
Journeyman

Joined: Feb 2007
Long Island, NY
I gave permission to a local environmental organization to use one of my images to promote their Owl Prowl event that is coming up this month. Fine. I've allowed them to use my images in the past, and I support their organization and efforts. But, I was notified by a friend of mine that Groupon is now using the image. WHAT!!!

Groupon Seatuck Promotion

I contacted the director of Seatuck, and he was sincerely apologetic. I believe him. He told me that a staff member used the image without his full knowledge. He sounded truly, sincerely apologetic and embarrassed. He's an attorney, after all, and he knows better. He offered to pay me for the image whatever I feel it's reasonably worth. And, he said he isn't going to haggle. Although that sounds like a "blank check", I certainly am not interested in gouging him. I have always trusted him in the past. So, do any of you have any ideas what I should charge him? I'm thinking maybe $200 or $300 dollars. Is that too much? Not enough? I just don't know.

And, thanks to this forum, I also found this image being used now by a site, www.yumdeal.com . The image, I am afraid, is out there. I'm really pissed.

Re: I feel betrayed [Re: Diane] #36788
10/09/11 10:48 AM
10/09/11 10:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Manhattan, New York, New York
James Morrissey Online content
I
James Morrissey  Online Content
I
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Manhattan, New York, New York
Hi Diane,

At least the positive on the Seatuck group is that they are willing to pay for it and give you compensation. If you feel it is an honest mistake, I might take a lesser amount for the image, such as the amount that you mentioned. However, if you feel that it really is a betrayal - then I would look for more. Also, it will depend on the usage. Are you looking to sell or just license the rights?

There are people here who know much more than I do on this, so I will defer to them. However, at least this guy is willing to make right by you, which I think is important.

As to the second fellow? Well, that is a different story. I went looking and could not find the image. However, I would definitely be ticked off if they were using it. Have you made outreach to them?

James


James

Re: I feel betrayed [Re: James Morrissey] #36790
10/09/11 11:24 AM
10/09/11 11:24 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
Tony Bynum Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tony Bynum  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Feb 2005
Montana
invoice him for the true and total cost of the usage, not a penny less . . . While he's sincere he knowingly use your photo without permission, he also know's that using images comes with a cost. I would not gouge him, i would charge full rate. The reason youre asking is because youre not in business yet. I can not understand why so many photographers diminish the value of their product and their worth . . . I'm not malicious and i more often than not negotiate and give deference to mistakes, we all make them, but in this case, you charge full price or youre only sending the message that photographers dont value their work . . .

Re: I feel betrayed [Re: Tony Bynum] #36792
10/09/11 12:02 PM
10/09/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline
Addict
Jim Garvie  Offline
Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
What Tony said ++++!

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: I feel betrayed [Re: Jim Garvie] #36795
10/09/11 02:41 PM
10/09/11 02:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Wisconsin
Welshfilly Offline
Tracker
Welshfilly  Offline
Tracker

Joined: Oct 2009
Wisconsin
It sounds like this will be resolved to your satisfaction, so that's a good thing. Getting your photography out and about is important and with that goes the risk that someone may use a photo without permission or compensation. However, the alternative is not to have your photography seen at all and no sales. I would suggest that you try to make the Groupon use of your photo work in your favor, I would price the use fairly, not punitively, and then suggest that perhaps they might be interested in licensing some of your other images in the future. Turn this fellow into a new client, if possible!


Re: I feel betrayed [Re: Welshfilly] #36800
10/09/11 11:52 PM
10/09/11 11:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Long Island, NY
Diane Offline OP
Journeyman
Diane  Offline OP
Journeyman

Joined: Feb 2007
Long Island, NY
You're right. Getting my stuff out there is a number one goal of mine, and I know I've taken a few risks. But, environmental causes are worth the risk to me. And usually they seem pretty sincere. But, %#(* happens. I have priced downloads of my images, low res for personal use, at $100. I've priced low res for commercial use at $350, which I think would smack of a punitive price in this case. I think it's a great suggestion to license some additional images. He really is a good guy. I'm going with the $100, and suggest the licensing scheme to him. And, I am sure he'll be having a few words with his employee.

Thanks for all your inputs. It really does help.

Re: I feel betrayed [Re: Diane] #36810
10/10/11 02:09 PM
10/10/11 02:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Kansas
psmith Offline
Pooh-Bah
psmith  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Nov 2008
Kansas
Originally Posted By: Diane
I gave permission to a local environmental organization to use one of my images to promote their Owl Prowl event that is coming up this month. Fine. I've allowed them to use my images in the past, and I support their organization and efforts. But, I was notified by a friend of mine that Groupon is now using the image. WHAT!!!

Groupon Seatuck Promotion

I contacted the director of Seatuck, and he was sincerely apologetic. I believe him. He told me that a staff member used the image without his full knowledge. He sounded truly, sincerely apologetic and embarrassed. He's an attorney, after all, and he knows better. He offered to pay me for the image whatever I feel it's reasonably worth. And, he said he isn't going to haggle. Although that sounds like a "blank check", I certainly am not interested in gouging him. I have always trusted him in the past. So, do any of you have any ideas what I should charge him? I'm thinking maybe $200 or $300 dollars. Is that too much? Not enough? I just don't know.

And, thanks to this forum, I also found this image being used now by a site, www.yumdeal.com . The image, I am afraid, is out there. I'm really pissed.


Is the image registered with the US Copyright office?

Re: I feel betrayed [Re: psmith] #36818
10/10/11 08:57 PM
10/10/11 08:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
Long Island, NY
Diane Offline OP
Journeyman
Diane  Offline OP
Journeyman

Joined: Feb 2007
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: psmith


Is the image registered with the US Copyright office?


No, it's not. None of my images are specifically registered. I've just gone by this notion that they are mine, my copyrights. I guess that's not good enough, huh?

Re: I feel betrayed [Re: Diane] #36831
10/11/11 07:53 PM
10/11/11 07:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Kansas
psmith Offline
Pooh-Bah
psmith  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Nov 2008
Kansas
Basically, if they are not registered you can recover a normal usage fee. If they are registered then you may be able to recover attorney fees and statutory damages damages up to $250,000. http://nylawline.typepad.com/photolawyer/2007/03/obtaining_copyr.html


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