Sometimes the image is strong enough without the missing piece. This is a full-frame image of a gull fishing that has sold many times, never had an editor complain about the missing wing part
John, great image but that's different than what we're talking about. Nobody owns that gull and nobody cares that you cut off the wing. In dogs, the owners care. They are the ones that buy the image.
Quote: John, great image but that's different than what we're talking about. Nobody owns that gull and nobody cares that you cut off the wing. In dogs, the owners care. They are the ones that buy the image.
Quote: John, great image but that's different than what we're talking about. Nobody owns that gull and nobody cares that you cut off the wing. In dogs, the owners care. They are the ones that buy the image.
Jim
My apologies
No need to apologize! Dog sport people typically do not care about perfect pictures, particularly the ones that don't show or breed dogs (which is definitely the majority of us). I've had people get all googly-eyed over crappy action shots from a point&shoot camera lol!
I asked the question because "I" care, and because I'm interested in what others do in similar situations. And as I'm fiddling with these cast-off images I've discovered that some of them can be used creatively in other ways, such as collages and montages.
I just wanted to comment as well...not everybody who visits this site, or posts to it from time to time, endeavours to pursue photography as a business venture. For me personally, this is a hobby. I do aspire to be "good" one day but that has nothing to do with making money...
Oh, btw...the gull shot is absolutely FANTASTIC!!!!
Kim
Re: Salvage - what is acceptable?
[Re: Skeeter]
#14902 05/05/0808:22 AM05/05/0808:22 AM
Kim, it's all about the word "salvage" which to me almost always means how can I make it sale-able. If you mean what can I do with these images to use them artistically, that's a whole 'nuther matter and what John has done with the gull is a perfect example of creative cropping.
However, a note about salvage: when we shot our first dog show over 5 years ago, the former photographer and the show's superintendent conspired to make sure that we would end up shooting the Best In Show shot after dark, outside. As you can imagine, this isn't the easiest thing to do with on-camera flash and the state-of-the-art at that time. The image was less than wonderful. Acceptable, but definitely not something you'd use in an ad.
However, we had been shooting the dogs in Group so we'd have candids as well as formals of all the top dogs and we managed to get a bunch of great action and interaction shots of the BIS dog -- a Corgi. Linda took those shots and created a collage along with the BIS formal and we sent that to the owner at no charge. He liked it so much, he used it for a Dog News cover a few months later.
That was "salvage" in the extreme: we saved the shot and ourselves in terms of our reputation as show photographers. And turned a potentially disastrous situation into a win/win for everyone concerned.
No need to apologize! Dog sport people typically do not care about perfect pictures, particularly the ones that don't show or breed dogs (which is definitely the majority of us).
Kim, I gotta disagree with this. Dog sport people DO care about the photos, just as much as breeders. If you are charging very little, they will buy more. If you are charging what a professional will, they will expect professional photos.
It is easy to get googly eyed over "good enough" photos if they are free, or very cheap. When you start asking real money for them, people will only buy if they are excellent
A missing body part isn't that big of a deal if there is some other factor in the photo that wows you. The one I posed of Dot is coming into the frame and you have eye contact. You see a dog that is intense on the lure. The missing foot wouldn't be a deal breaker.
So, don't sell people short by saying "dog sport people don't care". They do. Even if they don't breed or advertise
Quote: Kim, it's all about the word "salvage" which to me almost always means how can I make it sale-able. Jim
I meant salvage in terms of "usable" rather than sale-able. To date, I've never charged anyone for an image...something about it just doesn't seem right to me. That said, I really only share with friends, and people who I know will really appreciate the gesture.
My intentions are to charge a small fee this year but whether or not that will happen is another story...
Kim
Re: Salvage - what is acceptable?
[Re: Julie]
#14905 05/05/0810:42 AM05/05/0810:42 AM
No need to apologize! Dog sport people typically do not care about perfect pictures, particularly the ones that don't show or breed dogs (which is definitely the majority of us).
Kim, I gotta disagree with this. Dog sport people DO care about the photos, just as much as breeders. If you are charging very little, they will buy more. If you are charging what a professional will, they will expect professional photos.
It is easy to get googly eyed over "good enough" photos if they are free, or very cheap. When you start asking real money for them, people will only buy if they are excellent
A missing body part isn't that big of a deal if there is some other factor in the photo that wows you. The one I posed of Dot is coming into the frame and you have eye contact. You see a dog that is intense on the lure. The missing foot wouldn't be a deal breaker.
So, don't sell people short by saying "dog sport people don't care". They do. Even if they don't breed or advertise
Well, you've twisted my words, Julie I said they don't care about "perfect" pictures (perfect meaning from a photographers/artists perspective), not that they don't care.
After 10 years of competition in a variety of dog sports...agility, flyball, disc dog, lure coursing, formal obedience, rally obedience, dock dogs, etc, I have noticed that dog sport people in my country and region are not as nit picky about photos...sometimes I am shocked at what people will buy from the "pro's".
Regarding "wow" factor...that can be quite subjective, and also a bit biased when evaluating a photo of your own dog (human emotion tends to override everything else). For example, I have an agility photo of my stafford, Gus, that I absolutely love...his body is contorted in a very odd and humourous position coming off the teeter, but it is really not a great photo from a photographic perspective. It's underexposed, poorly composed, and the focal length of the lens was not long enough to do the subject any real justice.
To the photographers credit, he was shooting film with a manual focus lens in less than ideal shooting conditions. Regardless, he captured a moment for me, his money was well earned, and I will always treasure this less-than-perfect photo. Imagine what I would have missed if he had "culled" it.
Generally, dog sport people will pay for these special "moments" even when there are photographic flaws in the presentation. What is "special" to them is personal, subjective, and emotionally charged...
Kim
Re: Salvage - what is acceptable?
[Re: Skeeter]
#14906 05/05/0811:09 AM05/05/0811:09 AM
Kim, you originally posted the question so if you think the image is "salvagable" based on whatever criteria you use for the term, then why ask?
Nobody's questioning your experience with dogs. You seemed to be questioning whether or not the rest of us would do something with the image you posted and my response was based on whether or not I felt I could sell it. When I shoot events, that's the only criteria I can use. It ain't about art in those cases; it's about negotiable American currency.
When I'm shooting for me -- for fun -- my criteria may be different. But even then, my best images aren't usually "accidents" that managed to have something special in them. Of course, every time I get the image I imagined, it's pure luck. And the harder I work, the luckier I get .
Again, if you think that original image meets your criteria for "salvage" then that's all that matters. The rest of us represent a different perspective and different opinions. But that's all they are -- opinions.
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I said they don't care about "perfect" pictures (perfect meaning from a photographers/artists perspective), not that they don't care.
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