And my previous post didn't get posted, apparently. I was asking if anyone had good advice for how they priced photographs and how they decided what is fair to ask. It seems that everyone has the charge for their time and equipment (sitting fee) and the charges for prints.

The average sitting fee for pet photogs is about $100.00 based on my research. Do you find people willing to pay that? Did you charge less when you were starting out? I know that pricing depends very much on expenses- what do you have to charge to get back what you put into your business.

Here are some of my numbers: (Estimated monthly expenses to run a photo business on a very LEAN budget).

These numbers assume that I am working 2 jobs a week 52 weeks a year, so about 100 jobs/year. Is that a reasonable average? I'm basing it on what I've done so far - about two shoots a week. Remember, I'm PT semi-pro, not full time at this point. I am crunching numbers based on the idea that I will use equipment that I already have, so I haven't worked additional cameras, glass, and computers into this.

Paper and Ink (biggest expense) 172.00/mo
Advertising/Promotion: 40.00/mo
Postage 25.00/mo
Office Supplies: (Cds, etc) 60.00/mo
Monthly Expenses Total: 297.00/mo

If I do 6 jobs /mo (slightly less than 2/week, to err on the cautious side) I need to make $50.00 per job to cover the expenses that month.

Is my math right here? The sitting fee covers expenses, and you make profit on prints? Or do you work some profit into the sitting fee?

Thanks for any advice.

Your expenses are too simplistic. Your cameras should be amortalized at 24 months due to increase technology. How long do your lenses last? You have to make enough to not only cover your expenses, supplies and bills, but also to make enough to replace or repair equipment as the need arises. How about transportation? Insurance? Computers & software? Business expansion? Batteries & Chargers? Lights & cords? Backdrops & sets?

Everytime I upgrade a camera, I get a larger file size. I then have to buy a new computer that is faster to handle the increased file size. I have to buy bigger hard drives to store my photos on. I also have to buy larger and faster compact flash cards. I have to buy upgrades of my software to run on the new computer. A new camera doesn't cost me just the price of the camera, but also everything else that is used to process, store, sell or print the photos. All of this costs money or in 2 years you find yourself outdated and out of money even if you are busy taking photos.

Photography business is 80-90% business and 10-20% photography. If you are a great business person and go into the photography business, you will probably be successful. If you are a great photographer and go into the photography business, you might be a good employee.

Tori,
you're looking at it correctly. But there are some software solutions that can help you sort it out mathematically -- I recommend QuickBooks to help you identify all of the cost areas you need to consider when putting together a "business".

The basic approach is: Income = Cost Of Sale/Goods + Overhead + Profit Margin. So, let's start at the back with your projected Profit Margin. What do you want to make after you've covered all your expenses? For the sake of discussion, let's say it's 10%. So, then you have your Overhead Expenses which include things like rent, utilities, salaries, gas, auto expenses, travel, entertainment, supplies, etc. Then your cost of sale/goods. Let's say for simplicity that you fulfill your orders through a lab and they charge you $3.50 per print. That's your out-of-pocket cost of goods.

So once you add all those items up, you should charge enough to cover those expenses plus make an additional 10% margin. Keep in mind that as you set up your business, you have additional "above the line" items like equipment depreciation, loan expenses, equity investment, owner contributions, etc. If you use QuickBooks, it will help you set these accounts up properly.

Once you've done all that, you'll know what you need to charge to make money. But, oh gee, that may be more than the market will bear. And that's important to know: how much is your competition charging for the same (basically) product? If you need to charge a $100 sitting fee and $30/8X10 print and your competition is charging $50 plus $25/8X10, then you need to know that and be able to position your product as worth the additional amounts you're charging.

Now here's a trite phrase for you: after all is said and done, the bottom line is, in fact, the bottom line. If you want to make a profit, you need to charge enough to make a profit. Those are the numbers. The way you charge enough to make a profit is marketing.

And that's a whole 'nuther discussion.

Jim

To add to what David and Jim said: Pay yourself! Your expense calculation should include your wages. Uncle Sam doesn't allow you to deduct wages paid to yourself, but your cost calculations need to include them, anyway. And don't be chintzy. Pay yourself at least as much as you'd pay a good assistant.

Then you should use Jim's approach of including a fixed profit percentage in the cost structure. Taken altogether, you'll have a good idea of real expenses, and how hard you'll need to work to earn a given income.

Best way to get educated on all this: Check with your local business development council and the Federal Small Business Administration. They'll have seminars and courses and such, and can put you in touch with retired business-people who volunteer to help newbies. I benefited greatly from a business training program called 'Nex-step.' It ain't easy, but if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

I think youre on the right track but you missed THE main, and most important question, how much do YOU need to make in order to support your lifestyle. Once you figure that out, then work back to figure out how much you have to charge and how people must move through the doors.

I cant see making a living on your numbers, but maybe if you can gross $600 per client and you can maintain a constant 2 people per week and you dont have any issues or breakdowns or problems you might make it. . .

Tresta, what you can price your services/photos at depends on what people value them at.

You need to figure in a lot more than camera costs. TIME costs. The most important thing is to not start charging people without being able to deliver a consistent quality product. Going into business too soon will do nothing but harm you in the long run.

I have a money back guarantee. I have never had anyone ask for their money back, but, I have done reshoots. One was due to factors under my control, another was due to factors not under my control. Doesn't matter, I reshoot if people are not thrilled with their photos

I shot for free for a long time until I was sure I could give people a consistent product. I shot A LOT during that time too.

Julie:

That's good advice, I think. So far I have been shooting for free too. However, people are starting to ask me how much I charge, and are wanting to set up as paying clients. That's why I'm trying to figure this out now.

Any advice there? Maybe if they ask, charge enough to cover materials, but waive a sitting fee? What do you think?

In your own case, when did you decide "Okay, I can start charging now." About how long was that for you?

My advice would be to find a shelter / adoption organization that needs photos done to get your practice, and shoot friend's pets - prints for portfolio. If you shoot too many folks for free or for a discount it will be very hard to retrain them later on to pay for your services. That said, I agree with Julie, you have to deliver top quality consistently to get the prices that will sustain a business.

Tori, I took a bunch of classes on the basics, on photoshop, and on lighting THEN I shot for free until those that I had chosen to shoot, were telling me that was what they wanted to see.

I used specific people who were picky, who I knew would help *me* in what to look for and who I could seriously practice on.

Since you are going into people's homes and shooting, you have to have a great understanding of natural light, reflectors, how to use them to your advantage, flash and off camera flash.

Being a professional is a lot more than just charging for your photos. There is a business side you have to be good at. Not to mention the technical side. I just would not start charging until you really have a good feel on what to keep and what to cull. In a post you made, I loved the first and last of the two cats, but, the middle two would have been deleted and never shown to a client.


If it was me(and it was not too long ago) I would tell people you are portfolio building at the moment and are not charging. I would have them sign a release saying you will be able to use their photos as you please. I would give them photos for awhile.

I can't give you a definitive time as when one should start charging. The best way to put it is when you can consistently deliver the results.

I am very critical of my own work though. My goal is to be able to look at today's work and feel like last year's work was terrible, every year, improvement wise. I am confident in being able to get shots that are well exposed, with good lighting both in a natural area or in the studio, with the depth of field I want and a good expression on the animal and people.

Each year I try and add in new skills, new lighting techniques, new posing techniques. I started in event photography, which, I had an eye and the timing for. It was much less challenging than portraits. My paid work sorta slowly evolved from horse show stuff to mainly portraits.