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Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids #19903
01/19/09 09:57 AM
01/19/09 09:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim Garvie  Offline OP
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Florida
I discussed this item with Julie over the weekend but I wanted to post it here to get some additional feedback from you all (my attempt at Julie's Southern drawl). Starting at the Brooksville shows on the Florida Circuit, the Show Committee was requiring professional photographers who were shooting ringside candids to pay $40 a day and post a $1 million Liability Insurance rider indemnifying the club and the owner of the venue.

The Show Chair for the Ocala Shows next weekend has already contacted me to warn me that they are going to enforce the same conditions at their shows. These conditions appear to be aimed primarily at freelance photographers like Kenneth Reed and Chuck Currey who photograph and sell their images on spec. I can only assume that since I shoot on contract for individuals, I was not a target since nobody ever asked me for anything in Brooksville. But I did discuss the issue with Ken Reed and we both question the legality of it.

The Ocala Show Chair is a friend and was only notifying me so I wouldn't be surprised but it does present some major issues for those of us who are asked to take ring candids of advertising clients. If I'm at a show to shoot one or two dogs, the $40/day plus insurance, plus parking, plus travel is simply too much based on income potential.

The rationale I'm hearing from the Show Chairs is that they want to treat the freelance photographers like vendors without booths and let them buy their access to the venue. My question to them was, how about the handlers? They get paid to show the dogs but you don't charge them to be there and they don't have to insure themselves against liability. It is far more likely that a handler will strangle a judge than a photographer will beat the show chairman over the head with a 400mm lens .

Clearly, the Show Chairs think they have the right to do this and the photographers think they are having their right to make a living compromised by this policy. I'm not sure where it will all play out but my clients are very angry about it and intend to notify the Ocala Show Chair that the policy unfairly restricts their ability to get decent photos of their show dogs in a show environment. And if that doesn't have the sound of a lawsuit, I don't know what does.

In any event, I'd be interested in your views on this subject.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Jim Garvie] #19904
01/19/09 10:58 AM
01/19/09 10:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
Peggy Sue Offline
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Peggy Sue  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
First let me congratulate you on your new accent. Charming!

The issue of insurance has been troublesome for me for a long time. Lawsuits that are called shotgun are amazing they get as far in court as they do. Years ago I had to get a policy with 3million L. and since my insurance company only had 2,4,6 million etc. policies, I had to go from 1 million coverage to 4 million!
That was to cover me for doing my not for profit job. That means I have to pay to shoot for free!

As far as the shows are concerned, they are looking everywhere to get money and for some unknown reason the photographers look really wealthy!
I have fought with my own dog club to have them understand, but you cannot change the way of the many. Only a few get it and it will continue to be a battle.

This new policy seems to be another unfair and difficult policy that will lead to very unhappy clients. Try to tell them that the show is at fault for you having to charge more!


Peggy Sue
Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Peggy Sue] #19905
01/19/09 11:08 AM
01/19/09 11:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
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TN
I don't mind the thought of having to show proof of personal liability insurance. I think that could only be a GOOD thing. I wouldn't even mind the $40 press pass fee(they'd have to give something to hang on you to show you paid)

I don't know how they are going to enforce it. They need to have it stated in their premium lists to begin with so it isn't a shocker when you get there.

Unless they can figure out a way to enforce it and get compliance, it will be interesting. I can't see the purchasing a whole policy rider JUST for a club though. A personal policy of at least 1m in coverage ought to suffice. I think their personal idemnity coverage is the only real sticky point I have

I shot one setter at the setter ring and was very mindful about not picking up or pointing my camera at any but that one bitch(who was beautiful by the way!)

I have decided I am not working on spec anymore and if a club adds this fee to me, I will directly tell a client they must pay it, or split it with whatever clients I am shooting as an addition to my shooting fee.

Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Julie] #19906
01/19/09 11:55 AM
01/19/09 11:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim Garvie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Julie, PeggySue,
I DO have a problem both with the fee and with the insurance. This is not a press pass. It is a vendor fee. I get press passes when we go to Westminster because I'm covering it for the magazine. And I don't require insurance to get that pass.

If they are treating the freelance photographers (however they define that) as "vendors", then they have to put the same restrictions on all "vendors" which means they should require the same fees/insurance from the professional handlers. Now that would be a good source of income. And an absolute guarantee of lawsuits. Oh, and by the way, this new policy is in no way disclosed in the Premium List.

Julie, I agree that enforcement will be the key issue and it will be done as it is with every other capricious regulation: badly. When am I taking shots of the puppies I bred for my personal use and when am I taking shots of the Breed dogs on request for advertising? Heck, half the time I can't tell .

I'm sorry, but as an exhibitor, I also have a problem loading this new charge on the backs of the people campaigning dogs. My rates are pretty fair and my images are pretty decent. I'd like to keep that combination. To penalize my clients because they want to work with me is simply the wrong answer. But, if I'm not at the shows, they'll use someone else so it's truly a Catch 22.

What I've done is email all my clients, explained the situation and asked them, if they disagree with the policy, to contact the Show Chairman and the President of the Club and tell them so. I included both of their email addresses. This might not change the policy but it will let them know that it doesn't just effect the photographers but also the exhibitors who are now losing another source for creative images of their dogs.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Jim Garvie] #19907
01/19/09 12:28 PM
01/19/09 12:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Kansas
psmith Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Kansas
Jim, sorry to detract from the main topic...don't know dog shows but I speak Southern. You have made a typical Yankee mistake...the word is 'yall' the plural of which is 'all yall'. When spoken draw out the l's.


Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: psmith] #19908
01/19/09 12:46 PM
01/19/09 12:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim Garvie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Preston,
yeah, I know. But I refuse to learn the dialect . Lived in Florida for 19 years and I'm still a stubborn Northener!

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Jim Garvie] #19909
01/19/09 12:56 PM
01/19/09 12:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
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Julie  Offline
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TN
Except for the borders of Alabama/Georgia, all of FL is northern!!

I still don't have a southern accent!!

Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Julie] #19910
01/19/09 01:59 PM
01/19/09 01:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
Peggy Sue Offline
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Peggy Sue  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
Just a side not on accents. The true northern accent has been changing slightly since our teeth are chattering so much due to the below zero weather!


Peggy Sue
Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Julie] #19911
01/19/09 05:58 PM
01/19/09 05:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim Garvie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Julie,
OK, OK. You have a lovely, lilting Tennessee twang!

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Charging Photographers To Shoot Show Candids [Re: Jim Garvie] #19912
01/19/09 07:34 PM
01/19/09 07:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim Garvie  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Just a quick note: of the 30 emails I sent out to existing clients telling them about this situation, 15 have already gotten in touch with the show chair and club president via email or phone. Two additional exhibitors have forwarded my email to their lawyers who, it just so happens, are co-owners of their dogs.

The show chair has been very accommodating with the people she's talked to by phone explaining that I will not be asked to pay the fee or present the insurance. But that only means that they have singled out Chuck Currey and Kenneth Reed who shoot on spec. And that is equally unacceptable! The only acceptable answer on the part of the club is a total back-off from charging any fees to any freelance photographer. I believe they will come to that realization within the next 48 hrs. And they will be assisted in that decision by the AKC.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
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