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#25662 - 10/23/09 01:16 PM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: daveman]
James Morrissey Offline
I
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/05
Loc: Manhattan, New York, New York
Hey Roman/David,

Great conversation thus far. I am heading to Zion tonight. Does anyone know of a decent sunset location when I get out there? It is about two hours away from here....we will probably leave late morning/early afternoon. Oh heck...while I am at it, how about a sunrise for the morning? We will be staying near the lodge.

James
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Manhattan, New York, NY Pet Photographer


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#25663 - 10/23/09 05:50 PM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: James Morrissey]
daveman Offline
Old hand

Registered: 03/31/07
Loc: Arizona
James,

The first two shots in this thread were taken at sunrise near canyon junction. That location is easy to get to, and good for either sunset or sunrise.

I also like Canyon overlook - which is on the east side of the tunnel, and about a half mile hike from the road.
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See my stuff here davedilli.zenfolio.com

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#25664 - 10/23/09 10:48 PM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: daveman]
Tucson Jim Offline
Old hand

Registered: 07/31/07
Loc: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Hi James:

I don't see my previous reply, so I must have pushed the wrong button.

In any event, What I said was that I don't think you can go wrong following Dave's advice. The Watchman is good for both sunrise and sunset, but is probably more popular at sunset. The easiest and most popular access is from the bridge near the Canyon Junction Shuttle Stop. (Which is where I suspect Dave took the shot posted here from.)

Another good sunrise location, especially if you are staying in Springdale, is the "Towers of the Virgin," Easiest access is from behind the Zion Museum. I have never tried it, but you can also view it from the end of the Canyon Overlook Trail.

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#25665 - 10/24/09 02:12 AM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: Tucson Jim]
daveman Offline
Old hand

Registered: 03/31/07
Loc: Arizona
I would like to ask a few questions - I hope it is ok to do so in this thread James.

Before I ask PP questions, I have a field question that relates to high dynamic range scenes, like the one here.
Roman mentioned above that for best results, expose accurately for the sky, then expose accurately for the foreground and blend the two exposures. In order to avoid camera movement, my process is to use the camera's auto bracketing capability to take three shots, one over exposed, one accurate and one under exposed. I usually set to F8 or F11 and use aperature priority, and confirm I get both ends of the histogram within range between the three shots. This does not, however, accurately expose for either - just gets it all in the histogram.

How do you prevent movement when you are exposing once for sky and once for foreground? In the past I have used the camera's spot meter to get both exposures, then manually changed the exposure between the two shots. Each time I did this I got camera movement from changing the setting. Maybe it is just that my tripod is too light, or is there a trick to do this?

I seem to fumble around trying to get a gradated ND filter to work right, so woujld prefer to do so in PP.

Is there something I am missing?


Edited by daveman (10/24/09 04:51 AM)
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See my stuff here davedilli.zenfolio.com

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#25666 - 10/24/09 03:54 AM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: daveman]
James Morrissey Offline
I
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/11/05
Loc: Manhattan, New York, New York
Hey David,

LOL, not sure why I would mind! Seems like great questions to be asking.

"I seem to fumble around trying to get a gradated ND filter to work right, so would prefer to do so in PP."

I am not the person to answer this question. I try as much as possible to do things in camera. While I am still developing my technique with my ND filters (Singh Ray), I feel that I have become at least competent with them. I use them both hand held and with my 4x6 filter holder.

James

PS Thanks to all for the answers. I was at the Watchman tonight near the visitor center. Tomorrow AM we will be at the museum for sunrise. I hope to do the Watchman again tomorrow. This time I would like to find the location that David shared. Great composition!!
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Manhattan, New York, NY Pet Photographer


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#25667 - 10/24/09 10:44 PM Re: Zion National Park Question [Re: James Morrissey]
daveman Offline
Old hand

Registered: 03/31/07
Loc: Arizona
James - sounds like you are having a ball. Keep us posted.

Roman - I was really amazed with the way the ACR files looked - you made significant changes in ACR that I have never considered. Is there anything about how you do that that you are comfortable sharing? If not I understand.

You made significant changes to the Tint, Hue and Luminence for different colors, in addition to the typical changes available on the basic tab.

What makes you decide to do something in ACR rather than PS? Is there a particular order you go through in ACR? Probably the most challenging thing I saw was the changes you made to tint and WB. I would have never ended up with those changes - particularly tint. Maybe I just need to start playing more in ACR?

Do you do the WB and Tint first? What are you looking for at that point??? I think I am confused about how WB/ Tint and the hue/luminence sliders all work together.

I did go back to one of my exposures, make similar changes in ACR to what you did, blend with a differnt sky, then run it through what I usually do in PS, and got the result below. This one started out with a better exposure of the FG than the one I sent you.

I like it much better than my original posting - but I just do not see how I could have come to this on my own without seeing your ACR file of a similar shot.



I would appreciate if there is anything you are comfortable sharing about this process.

Thanks again for your help.
Dave


Edited by daveman (10/25/09 12:11 AM)

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#25668 - 10/25/09 05:10 AM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: RomanJohnston]
Tyler Offline
Venturer

Registered: 02/06/09
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Quote:


If you had taken this shot with a tripod and exposed 100% corretcly for foreground and one after for sky, this could have turned into quite a gallery quality print.
Roman





Is this the common practice now, to get everything you want in separate images and blend them in Photo shop? I know its impossible at times, but as I'm trying to get better I've been going about getting the most out of a single frame as I can manage. Perhaps I'm going about things the wrong way.

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#25669 - 10/25/09 08:27 PM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: Tyler]
RomanJohnston Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Loc: Portland Oregon
Tyler, it is One way (of many) to "skin a cat" as they say...lol.

I also like to use Split ND graduated filters out in the field.

I also have a tutorial on this site on how to do blends for HDR scenes. (but it isnt HDR)

And you can use HDR programs

There are many ways to do this and maybe even a combonation of like my HDR blend and using a split ND filter in the field.

But I am much like you where I try to do as much as I can with one shot.

Having a 2 and a 4 stop Split ND filter with a soft grad really helps.

A 3 or 4 stop reverse split ND works also very well for "Sun in the horizon" shots. The gradient is in the middle and fades outward to clear on both sides.

Just tools you aquire over time.

Roman
_________________________
Roman Johnston
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos

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#25670 - 10/25/09 08:29 PM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: RomanJohnston]
RomanJohnston Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 09/15/05
Loc: Portland Oregon
I think over the next few weeks I am going to work on a tutorial with pictures on how I process RAW pictures.

I do this kind of documentation all the time at work...so shouldnt be that hard.

Roman
_________________________
Roman Johnston
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos

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#25671 - 10/25/09 11:39 PM Re: Zion National Park - Watchman [Re: RomanJohnston]
daveman Offline
Old hand

Registered: 03/31/07
Loc: Arizona
That would be appreciated. I expect it that would be helpful for many of us.

I do not think I have ever read about anyone's ACR workflow - I typically do very little in ACR, but will start now and see where it leads me.

Thanks again Roman.
Dave
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See my stuff here davedilli.zenfolio.com

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