I have a niece who wants to talk to me about photography because she is interested in it as a career. One of her questions is whether she should attend a 2 or 4 year degree program in Photography, or not attend one at all.

I didn't even know they had 2 and 4 year degree programs in Photography. I understand taking a course here or there, but a degree program?

Have any of you had any experience with degree programs in Photography? I expect the value of a program would depend upon what kind of photography you want to do, but thought I would ask for opinions about Photography schools as a means towards a career?

I do not know what kind of photography she is interested in yet, I will ask her when she and I chat.

I would appreciate any perspective anyone has.
Dave

I guess my first question would require some introspective on her part and maybe some honest assesment on your part. Does she shoot already, is there some raw natural talent already starting to show through?

I am guessing there are LOTS of success stories of people using such a degree to their benifit. I am also guessing I have never heard them as of yet. I would probably be very interested in seeing portfoloios of alumni.

What school are we talking about? Is this a photographic only school, or a degree program withn an acredited college? Does the ciriculum match your nieces goals?

Now the next part, I offer more as a warning. My only exposure to graduates of such a degree is on line personality that asked to pick the best of a series of photographs for their final photographic thesis. All of the 4 posted looked like snap shots that looked worse than any beginner would have taken with a P&S. And when people started to ask if it was a joke, the person obviously got severly offended, offering that their teachers saw "Pure Genius" in their shots.

If the school seems legit, and your niece has some solid artistic natural foundation, and the school has a well rounded circulum, that it probably couldn't hurt to have a degree.

I would offer this though. If she DOES have natural talent...that art based brains rarely have good business sense as well as the people come usually from diffrent regions of the brain. With that said, make sure the degree program has business based classes, as that seems to be the bane of most talented photographers....is knowing how to market their product.

Maybe the 2 year photographic program and another 2 year business program?

Just some suggestions.

Roman

Dave,
while I agree with most of the points that Roman makes, there are careers in Photography and Graphic Arts and focusing on them in college or in a 2-year program isn't necessarily a bad idea. Here's an excerpt from one of the colleges that offers both Bachelors and Masters Degrees in Photography:

Quote:

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A degree in photography prepares students for careers in graphic design and studio art. Students will become educated in both traditional and state-of-the-art photography techniques. In addition, students are taught to look at photography from a historical perspective and how to develop their own professional quality portfolio so that upon graduation they are fully armed with all they need to begin a flexible and rewarding career.

Graduates with photography Masters degrees go on to careers as gallery curators, educators, portraiture photographers, corporate photographers, photojournalists, travel photographers, photo editors, and artists.

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Personally, I think a major in Photography and a minor in Business would be a fabulous college curriculum and excellent preparation for any career which focuses on photography -- like Sports Illustrated, National Geographic, fashion photography, etc. Areas that have very specialized imaging requirements.

As Roman says, it's definitely something to discuss with her further but I wouldn't do it from the perspective of being negative. Just be sure she has a reasonable idea of what she might do with it after she gets her degree.

Jim

With the way the profession is going, I would say to get a BA in liberal arts, with a focus on graphic design with a few photography classes thrown in. If she is anything like me, she'd fail the business classes due to the heavy math(which is why I have a BA in liberal arts, with my major of Psychology and minor in english lit)

Photography is like being a real estate agent, many try and few succeed. Those who do make a living, the rest starve. I believe everyone needs a college degree to give them time to grow up and keep a few doors open that won't be, if you do not have one.

I was told my BA would have me working at McDonalds. Which, in part could be true as it did not set me up for a career the way an engineering degree would. The thing a professor(who said this to me) doesn't understand is that many have an entreprenurial strength or just a great sales personality, which, I had. Hence my years as a mortgage broker.

The top portrait photographers have great knowledge in using PS. I do a lot of ad designs and wish I had more knowledge in programs such as indesign etc; I am proficient in PS, but, not talented. That is what separates the good photographers from the great. Or hiring someone with that talent.

First answer is that she should get a degree that she can make a living on. Then add on some photography courses

Should you get a degree in photography? Do you believe in learning the basics and fundamentals?

How important do you think it is to learn about
1. Shooting B&W film
2. Developing and printing in a real darkroom
3. The history of photography?
4. Operation and movements of view cameras?
5. Color processing
6. Color theory
7. Photojournalism
8. The Zone System
9. Light theory
10. Studio lighting techniques
11. Posing techniques

A degree program gives you a solid base and hopefully adds on some practical things regarding running a business, building a portfolio, marketing yourself, etc. Problem is you do spend a yearor two on theory and film and history, and a lot of people just want to get straight to the 'making the money' part.

Thanks everyone - lots of good perspective to think about.

Dave

This is copied from the Montana State University website.
You can go to the site and look at the classes that are taught.

B.A. in Film and Photography

The curriculum in the Photography option offers both artistic and applied approaches to the medium, providing a solid foundation for those entering a professional field and those choosing to pursue postgraduate education. Accredited by the National Association of Schools of Art and Design, the Photography option sets high standards for production and is one of the few comprehensive four-year photography degree programs in a sizable geographical area of the north central and northwest United States. Coursework covers everything from traditional silver-based darkroom techniques to alternative processes as well as a growing emphasis in digital technologies across the curriculum.

Don

Long post - Some of the courses offered at my local community college (KU and K State photo and art students often come here for photo classes), theres another long list of Photoshop and Graphic Design classes:

PHOT 121 - Fundamentals of Photography
This course provides an introduction to the tools, procedures, concepts and application of photographic imaging. Students will use cameras, light meters and darkroom equipment for film developing and printing to make images to meet the requirements of a series of assignments designed to develop specific skills, competencies and points of view and to stimulate the students' creative capacities for personal expression, communication and self-understanding. Students must provide their own camera with adjustable focus, shutter speeds and aperture. 6 hrs. lecture, lab/wk.

PHOT 122 - Advanced Photography
This course provides an introduction to advanced techniques, tools, procedures and concepts of photographic imaging, with an emphasis on black-and-white photography as a fine art. Students will use Zone System tests and procedures to produce prints of maximum quality. Students will use advanced techniques, such as split-developers for contrast control, multiple-imaging and archival processing, and print presentation. Several "alternative" printing processes will be discussed and demonstrated. This course also includes a basic introduction to medium format (2 1/4) and large format (4 x 5) camera equipment and technique. Students will apply the above to make images for a series of conceptually advanced, project/series-oriented assignments to stimulate the student's creative capacities for personal expression, communication and self-understanding. 6 hrs. lecture, lab/wk.

PHOT 123 - Studio Photography
This course provides an introduction to advanced techniques, tools, procedures and concepts of studio and commercial photography. Students will use professional camera and studio equipment, including studio electronic flash and hand-held light/flash meters. This course also includes an introduction to professional medium format (2 1/4) and large format (4"x5") equipment and advanced camera techniques for total image control. Students will use studio lighting for various portraiture styles and for small-product, table-top photography. Applications of digital photography as they apply to studio photographic processes will be introduced. Students will apply the above to make images for a series of advanced studio assignments. 6 hrs. lecture, lab/wk.

PHOT 128 - Digital Photography
This course is an introduction to the concepts, tools and technology of digital imaging for photographers. Students will develop competence in the use of digital photographic equipment, software, storage devices and printers to produce digital photographic images satisfying the requirements of a series of assignments designed to develop specific skills and competencies. Students will "capture," manipulate, correct, transmit, store and output images. They will use digital technology to produce images for commercial and/or artistic applications. Ethics and cultural implications of the technology will be discussed. 6 hrs. lecture, lab/wk.

ARTH 188 - History of Photography
This course provides an introduction to the history of photography. Students will examine the aesthetic and technological evolution of photography as an art form, as a visual tool for and influence upon other artistic disciplines, and as a statement of perceived reality. The course will examine the elements that distinguish various aesthetic movements, the styles of major periods and the influences of individual photographers. Attention will be paid to the relationship between photographic imagery and various cultural and historical contexts. Recommended prior course is PHOT 121. 3 hrs. lecture/wk.

JOUR 145 - Digital Photojournalism
This course is designed to meet the photographic imaging needs of journalism students. It provides a journalistic approach to the concepts and application of digital photography for multi-media. Students will use cameras, computers, software, scanners and image-output devices to master the issues, concepts, and constraints involved in creating imagers for a broad range of media. They will prepare and format digitized image files for storage and transmission, and print and Web-based reproduction. 6 hrs. integrated lecture lab/wk.

This is a very timely question since I just spoke with a professor yesterday at the college I attend and enrollment is up except the graphics is down. My degree in photography from a two year college was brilliant and would not trade it for anything. It was strictly photographic science degree and geared toward commercial work.

A different college where I received an art degree has the photographic department aligned with the art program and not business. Now the art/photography is my passion, it is clearly not the money route. Fine art photography is not what most of us on this forum do, but there are artists making a good living with this route.

I would definitely encourage anyone to join PPA and hopefully the affiliates group will have great meetings that will provide both technical and business programs that will help. The degrees they offer are a great way to learn.


It is a fine line balancing act to "play" at what we love to do and really earn a decent living by knowing the business. It is a necessary evil (my opinion) but then I am married to a person with a Masters Degree in Business and I know I could not have gone the big business road he picked but it provides security. So does personality enter into the decision of what courses she should take - absolutely.

Friends that I went to school with went off into different directions, some when on to four year schools with photography programs and then that avenue would lead you to teaching. Maybe that would be an alternative - does Professor ........... sound good to her?

I did a minor in photojournalism along with my major in engineering and a second major in comparative anatomy. This was followed by other degrees in graduate school, not photography related.

A good education is always valuable; a bad education is a waste of time. If she choose a good photography program, I am sure it will help her develop her vision and style; provide a business background and critiques from others. The two best schools in US, IMHO, are Brooks Institute and Rochester Institute of Photography.

It would be very important for her to decide her photography track. Does she want to do portraits and weddings or commercial; for both of these a photography program would provide excellent footing. If she is leaning toward nature, wildlife, pets, et al; them a photography program would not provide much exposure.