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Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: psmith] #28375
03/05/10 09:57 PM
03/05/10 09:57 PM
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Jim Poor Offline
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LoL

Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Poor] #28376
03/05/10 11:36 PM
03/05/10 11:36 PM
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Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim,
forgive my canine ignorance, but what the heck is a "fluffy"?

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Garvie] #28377
03/05/10 11:57 PM
03/05/10 11:57 PM
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Jim Poor Offline
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It is a coat defect in the Pembroke Welsh Corgi that makes them long, soft-coated.

Makes them look almost like a Sheltie-Corgi mix. Cute as can be, but disqualified for conformation.

I've got some photos of a few around my files somewhere.

Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Poor] #28378
03/06/10 12:35 AM
03/06/10 12:35 AM
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Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Poor] #28379
03/06/10 02:06 AM
03/06/10 02:06 AM
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Jim Garvie Offline OP
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So it's like a long-coat Rottie. OK. We have one, Harry Potter. In Rotties -- as in Corgis -- it's not a "defect" but rather a recessive gene. When you get a recessive on both sides of the genetic equation, as Mendel has said, you will get 25% of the offspring that have the trait, 25% that do not have the trait nor do they carry it and 50% that are carriers. Harry Potter is a Rowdy son and he's definitely a long-coat since his mom, Magic, carried the same gene.

With long-coats, the gene carries other characteristics such as outstanding temperament and excellent conformation which is why lots of folks would like to breed them for selling. Not an ethical solution. Long-coats are not acceptable according to the breed standard and all long-coats in Rotties should be neutered as soon as possible. We don't consider it something to be desired. We accept it as reality and live with the consequences but we try to breed it out of the breed. With genetic markers, we've been able to identify those dogs carrying the recessive gene and make sure they are not bred to other dogs that also carry the gene. That will, ultimately, remove the characteristic from the breed.

It's kinda like breeding Brazilian Tea-cup Rotties -- Rotties that are so under the standard in terms of size that they resemble beefier French Bulldogs. Not ethical. Lots of sales potential but lots of problems inherent in that type of breeding as well.

Why not a good old standard Corgi? They are great dogs and they have the coat they have because, over time, it's been deemed the most acceptable coat for the work they do. Why would you want a dog whose claim to fame is a "fault"?

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Garvie] #28380
03/06/10 02:57 AM
03/06/10 02:57 AM
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Julie Offline
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They really are cute and very pretty. I think my biggest beef with a fluffy is that the people breeding for a fault probably are not the most responsible breeders.

I don't know enough about corgis to know if it is just something that happens in many litters or if it is a trait you have to choose to breed for.

Jim G, I looked up long haired rotties and I have never seen one! They almost look like they are mixed with flat coated retrievers!

Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Julie] #28381
03/06/10 03:20 AM
03/06/10 03:20 AM
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Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Julie,
I'll send you some pics of Harry Potter. He's totally adorable and very, very fluffy. We take him down about every two months for comfort but he's really a great dog. And he has pheromones that are very interesting: girls love him but so do the boys! And he's definitely heterosexual.

I agree about those breeders who breed specifically for a fault like coat, color or size. They are definitely not the most responsible breeders. Long-coat Rotties are adorable -- and I could sell as many as I could produce -- but they are not correct and, from a breed perspective, they are not what responsible breeders should try to produce. It all comes down to why people breed: I breed to improve the breed. I don't breed to sell puppies. The selling of puppies is a consequence of breeding but not the objective. "Designer Breed" folks are into selling puppies. They have no concept of improving the breed nor do they care about it. They care about making money.

That's a fundamental difference between "responsible" breeders and people who breed to make money. Breeding isn't a business and it isn't about quantities and selling. It's about quality and improving the breed for the next generation. The folks that do it for money invariably do it too often, too much and too badly.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Garvie] #28382
03/06/10 03:40 AM
03/06/10 03:40 AM
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Jim Poor Offline
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The fluffies sometimes just happen.

I agree totally that breeding in an effort to produce a "faulty" dog is a bad bad idea, but when they do pop up, somebody has to have a home for them.

There are, unfortunately unethical breeders that try specifically to produce the Fluffies. Some even market them as "Rare Long-haired Corgi."

In this case, the breeder doesn't breed for them, but occasionally ends up with them in the litter. A client & friend of mine has a mix of "normal" and fluffy corgis and suggested I contact this specific breeder.

From what I understand so far, the agreement would be that the dogs must be altered so they cannot reproduce. I've asked around a few corgi clubs, rescues and other friends about the breeder but haven't heard back from anyone yet.

Just so happens that there is a 6 week old litter with FOUR fluffies. The father was the #1 Corgi in the country in 2007.

Why does the fluffy appeal to me? 1. They are really adorable and 2. There is research linking changes coat type to temperament and the fluffies are held up as "softer" corgis.

I'm hoping to see my friend and get some corgi love at a UKC trial I'm shooting this weekend.

Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Poor] #28383
03/06/10 12:38 PM
03/06/10 12:38 PM
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Julie Offline
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OK, then it isn't an effort to produce them, its jut recessive genes that happen. Yes, pet homes are needed for all the dogs and having a different coat isn't a negative when it is spayed or neutered. Really no different than a whippet who doesn't make it into or goes out of standard(height wise) Some people like teeny tiny whippets and they make as good of a pet as one in the middle of the height standard. Or one with a china blue eye, there are pet people who think that is really cool.

Both things to me are really awful because too big or small or a blue eye(s) knocks them out of any lure coursing, which I think is fun for everyone. Those that happen must be placed very carefully into a home you are sure would have no desire to run the dogs.

Re: The Frustration of Rescue Work [Re: Jim Poor] #28384
03/06/10 09:14 PM
03/06/10 09:14 PM
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Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
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Jim,
If it's the same genetic marker that produces the long-coat in Rotties, it can be tested for. We did that with Presley and Juneau in our last litter because Juneau is a Rowdy granddaughter and Presley is a Magic son and Rowdy's long-coated litter was out of Magic. Both Juneau and Presley are free of having the trait or carrying the recessive gene.

That behavioral thing about dogs with the coats being longer/softer is true. I've known over a dozen long-coated Rotties and each one was a total doll. Our Harry Potter is exceptionally sweet. One warning though: the longer coats are a bit of a pain to maintain. Harry's is very fine and mats easily. So we take him down about every 6 weeks or so.

Good luck with the search and have fun with lots of puppies. That's the really fun thing about the process.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
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