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Another newbie looking for tips! #8221
05/07/07 01:03 PM
05/07/07 01:03 PM
Joined: May 2007
Illinois
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Rachel Offline OP
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Rachel  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2007
Illinois
I am VERY new to photography, and so far just take pics of my own dogs. I would like to advance to the point of shooting other peoples pets. This seems like a great board and i have learned quite a bit just by lurking!
Here is a recent pic of one of the dogs....

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Last edited by Rachel; 05/07/07 01:05 PM.
Re: Another newbie looking for tips! [Re: Rachel] #8222
05/07/07 01:45 PM
05/07/07 01:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
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Julie  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Awwww, I love Bostons

Re: Another newbie looking for tips! [Re: Rachel] #8223
05/07/07 08:48 PM
05/07/07 08:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Northwest Washington
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Blue Dog Offline
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Blue Dog  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Northwest Washington
Hi Rachel,

Shooting digital now days allows us to take thousands of images without much cost. In a weekend at an event I take 2000-3000 images a day. Many of them are out of focus, poorly exposed or just plain garbage. But, because I shoot so many, by accident a few turn out to be keepers. As we gain more experience, we increase the keepers and decrease the garbage shots.

If I shot film, I could never afford to shoot the way I do. Having digital allows us to experiment, refine our technique and bump into a good image more frequently.

How to become a better photographer?
1. practice, practice, practice
2. read books, magazines and the web
3. learn post-processing
4. ask other photographers
5. study light
6. learn what makes a good exposure and all the different controls your camera has to create an exposure - quit using the Auto modes and learn to use the 'Manual Mode'
7. learn what makes a good composition
8. did I say practice?

(I am still doing all of these and someday I hope to become a good photographer)

Good luck and have fun!

Re: Another newbie looking for tips! [Re: Blue Dog] #8224
05/08/07 03:23 PM
05/08/07 03:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
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DavidRamey Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
Digital is NOT cheaper than film!!!! When I switched from film to digital, I saved $25,000 in film and processing costs, but it also cost me $25,000 in equipment to switch to digital so ... no savings. Add up the costs of new camera bodies every 2 years, the endless upgrades to computers, software, digital storage, CD's, DVD's, hard drives, printers, paper, ink, etc. and you are spending as much or more on digital than paying for film and processing. During the days of film, the camera bodies lasted for 10-30 + years. Now they last a full time professional photographer about 2 years. A new digital camera for professional use is $1000 to $5000 + while film cameras were for the most part below $1000. Then there are all the new lenses we had to buy because the old "film lenses" didn't resolve good enough for digital, the camera and lens repairs that didn't need repairing for film , but need to be repaired for digital. Worn out shutters, circuit boards going bad, lenses and bodies not communicating, etc. I base this on over 10 years of full time professional photography with over 1,000,000 photos in storage. We have just traded up front costs for back end costs. Would I go back to film? NO !!!! The advantage to digital is instant feedback, not savings.

How much time do you spend on post processing? Probably more time than you spent dropping off and picking up film. Remember, time IS money.

Last edited by DavidRamey; 05/08/07 03:26 PM.

David Ramey Photography
Re: Another newbie looking for tips! [Re: DavidRamey] #8225
05/08/07 11:16 PM
05/08/07 11:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Northwest Washington
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Blue Dog Offline
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Blue Dog  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2006
Northwest Washington
Hi David,

While none of your points are debatable, I think a beginner's experience like Rachel's is different from your experience. I assume she already has at least a "starter" digital camera and it is much more affordable for her to shoot many practice images than a person with a similar quality film camera. Buying one roll of film, processing and prints for 36 exposures would cost her about $8 - $10 and not all of them keepers.

Once a person goes digital, it costs about the same to shoot 3600 images as it does to shoot 36. That's my point.

Oh yeah, instant feedback AND maintaining full control every step of the way are the best reasons for digital and that's what hooked me.

Have Fun!
Jeff

Re: Another newbie looking for tips! [Re: Blue Dog] #8226
05/09/07 12:21 AM
05/09/07 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
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DavidRamey Offline
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DavidRamey  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2006
Alaska
Quote:

Hi David,

While none of your points are debatable, I think a beginner's experience like Rachel's is different from your experience. I assume she already has at least a "starter" digital camera and it is much more affordable for her to shoot many practice images than a person with a similar quality film camera. Buying one roll of film, processing and prints for 36 exposures would cost her about $8 - $10 and not all of them keepers.

Once a person goes digital, it costs about the same to shoot 3600 images as it does to shoot 36. That's my point.

Oh yeah, instant feedback AND maintaining full control every step of the way are the best reasons for digital and that's what hooked me.

Have Fun!
Jeff




Jeff,
I agree with the full control (i can print here in my office up to 24x36") and the instant feedback. But my point on the cost of digital apples to everybody, not just a working pro. Let me give some examples for consumer quality.

film body = $500.

digital body = $1000 (with about the same features as film body)
computer = $500
printer = $100
programs = $200
Total = $1800
Difference = $1300
film & processing $10 per roll
You could buy 130 rolls of film (36 exposure) for the same amount of money and that equates to 4680 photos. This comparison doesn't even take into consideration the ink & paper for the printing of your own digital photos, so you could actually have more than 130 rolls of film & processing. For most beginners, this would be a year's worth of photography. 2 years after you bought this stuff, there will be newer and better computers, printers, cameras and today's 6 - 10 MP cameras will pale in comparison to the 30 MP cameras that will be here in 2 years.

Like I said, digital is not cheaper than film, but it is more convenient, more control over final product and faster feedback. I love digital for the control, the convenience, the instant feedback, but this common misconception that digital is cheaper than film is driving the price of photography down to the point that a lot of photographers are going out of business because they can't make a living at it anymore. And this will hurt all the beginners if they like photography and would like to make it their vocation.


David Ramey Photography
Re: Another newbie looking for tips! [Re: DavidRamey] #8227
05/10/07 10:17 AM
05/10/07 10:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Northwest Washington
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Blue Dog Offline
Tracker
Blue Dog  Offline
Tracker
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Joined: Apr 2006
Northwest Washington
Hey David,

I have two points:
1. Most people now already have a computer in their homes, for the most part capable of supporting a beginning level of digital photography. For them the computer came first and then the camera. Your argument assumes the person decides to get into digpho and then buys a camera AND a computer. I don't think that is the common evolution of a beginner. Most will already have a computer for many other reasons and then get a camera.

With your argument it is like saying if I want to go to the store and buy a gallon of milk I would have to include the price of the car as part of the enjoyment of drinking milk even though I already had a car for many other reasons.

2. I can buy an entry level dig camera and not need a computer at all. I just shoot away and take the memory card to the drug store and an hour later I have a contact sheet and then chose the prints I want from the contact sheet. This scenario is problematic because it deprives the user of the joy and reasons for getting into digpho. However, this is the new world when film production and use has decreased and it is getting difficult to find a place to process film.

This is a very weak argument but I felt compelled to make it anyway.

You have a very practical and realistic perspective which needs to be taken into account for anybody getting into digpho.

But enough, let's stop hijacking this thread and how about you leaving some tips for Rachel from a pro's perspective.

I enjoyed the discussion.
Best Regards,
Jeff


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