NWPBanner
Welcome! NWPphotoforum.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Expectations #12817
01/27/08 10:25 AM
01/27/08 10:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
Addict
Jim Garvie  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Yesterday, Linda and I drove up to Ocala (1.5 hrs. North of Orlando) to shoot some candids of dogs at a show. It was rainy; it was raw (49 degrees which, for us Floridians, is truly RAW) and it was early -- we had to be there by 8 am.

I shot a Toy Poodle in the rain and two Rotties in intermittant showers as well as a Mastiff while lying on the wet ground and shooting him stacked. When I got home, I processed the images and found 4 great moving shots of the Poodle; 2 very good moving shots of one of the Rotties; 4 great moving shots of the other Rottie; and one very nice stacked shot of the Mastiff (that didn't want to be stacked).

And I was disappointed.

For some reason, I expected more. I realized last evening that I'm getting jaded. I've had incredible luck getting great shots of dogs under great conditions -- bright sun; high contrast. And yesterday, I got everything I needed to get under conditions that were anything but optimum but it seemed that I should have gotten more.

I'm the guy who has always said that if you can get one really good moving shot of a dog at a show, you've done your job. Some dogs simply don't move well and you can never get that great shot with the off legs completely under and the striding legs at full extension front and rear. Yesterday, I got more than what I should have.

I guess we all tend to think that every frame should be in perfect focus; every burst should have at least one frame that is perfect. It simply doesn't work that way. The objective is to take as many images as necessary to get the shot you want. This isn't film. Digital lets us waste frames without wasting $$$.

Sometimes I forget that as good as the equipment is, we still need to work hard to get those good images. And that managing expectations -- especially our own -- is still the hardest part of photography.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Expectations [Re: Jim Garvie] #12818
01/27/08 10:35 AM
01/27/08 10:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
Addict
Julie  Offline
Addict

Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Jim, I have my ups and downs. I have days I think I am a great photographer and then I have days I think I should ebay everything I own, as I should not be hanging out a shingle at all.

If you got some great movement shots and a great stacked shot, just PS it to give them a little punch color and sharpness wise and call it a good day!

Re: Expectations [Re: Julie] #12819
01/27/08 01:44 PM
01/27/08 01:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Washington
D
Dee Dee Offline
Veteran
Dee Dee  Offline
Veteran
D

Joined: Jan 2006
Washington
I hear you too. Sometimes I feel like I haven't learned a thing when I have a bad shoot. I had 2 I was disappointed in this week. I had to go look at some previous shoots keep from giving all my gear away!

It's the same with art, I think the better we get, the higher we raise the bar and what used to blow our own socks off, now looks disappointingly mediocre.

I remember at major art shows I'd visit long ago I'd be jaw droppingly amazed at some of the top art there. I would stand for hours in front of gorgeous paintings and study them, I couldn't imagine how they did that. Now I see the same art and I don't give it a second look. Sort of sad in a way that it takes more and more to get that buzz of excitement...I suppose one day nothing will generate that level of awe inspiring inspiration. But it's also a chart of our own growth.

Moral is...you've just gotten too darn good Jim!!!


My Web Site www.deedeemurry.com
Re: Expectations [Re: Dee Dee] #12820
01/27/08 04:57 PM
01/27/08 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
st. petersburg, florida, usa a...
V
Visceral Image Offline
Old hand
Visceral Image  Offline
Old hand
V

Joined: Jan 2008
st. petersburg, florida, usa a...
what is a stacked shot

is a moving shot a shot of an animal running

Re: Expectations [Re: Visceral Image] #12821
01/27/08 07:25 PM
01/27/08 07:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
Addict
Jim Garvie  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
John,
a "stacked" shot is a shot of a dog that has been set up by its handler according to the Breed Standard to show off the dog's basic structure. Here is an example of a stacked shot.



Note that the dog (in this case Rowdy) is set up with his rear hocks perpendicular to the ground, his front legs directly under his shoulders and his topline level. That's how they're supposed to look .

A moving shot is usually a candid shot taken in the ring (sometimes out of the ring) that demonstrates how a dog trots when it is moved during showing. The objective is to capture the dog fully-articulated with one front leg and one rear leg fully extended and the opposite legs fully contracted under the dog. Here's a sample of a moving shot.



In order to capture a dog that is fully-articulated, they have to move properly and be structurally balanced front and rear. That's why judges move the dogs. Some dogs look great stacked but don't move well. Some dogs don't look great stacked out but move like water flows -- effortlessly. The great dogs are the ones that look great both standing still and moving.

Hope that answers your question.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Expectations [Re: Jim Garvie] #12822
01/27/08 07:36 PM
01/27/08 07:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
st. petersburg, florida, usa a...
V
Visceral Image Offline
Old hand
Visceral Image  Offline
Old hand
V

Joined: Jan 2008
st. petersburg, florida, usa a...
Thank you Jim, very good explanation. I have been studying breeds lately in the library.

Re: Expectations [Re: Visceral Image] #12823
01/27/08 08:49 PM
01/27/08 08:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
Jim Garvie Offline OP
Addict
Jim Garvie  Offline OP
Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Florida
John,
keep in mind that show photography is a very specific niche in the whole "pet photography" category and knowing the breeds and how they should be set up is a necessary component to what I do in the show ring.

But taking great pet portraits is more about rapport with the animals and knowing good composition and you already have that piece in your arsenal. There are very few show photographers because, frankly, it's a hard business to get into politically and it's hard to do if you are not -- or have not been -- an exhibitor/handler. That's one of the reasons that Julie is so good with Whippets and why I give pretty good Rottie. We both know our own breeds very well.

I've found that in my business, it's better to be a good dog person than a great photographer. I'm not saying that the photographic piece isn't important, but if you don't know how a dog should be stacked or where you should position yourself for the correct angle on the win shot, it doesn't matter how good the lighting or exposure or composition is. The image will not be bought or used.

For example, Dobermans are shot from the shoulder. That means that the Dobe is in full profile with the front legs seen as one. Bull Mastiffs are shot 3/4 off the front so that you see the chest and both eyes. I also shoot Bull Mastiffs off the ground to accentuate their powerful physique.

Like I said, to play this particular game -- dog show formal win shots, you need to know your dogs and what is the "correct" way to shoot them.

Jim


Jim Garvie
www.jagphoto.biz
Re: Expectations [Re: Jim Garvie] #12824
01/27/08 10:23 PM
01/27/08 10:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
Peggy Sue Offline
Pooh-Bah
Peggy Sue  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
Recently I heard a phrase that has become my mantra lately. "Art without intention"
Now I have had various opinions regarding this phrase, but for me it is allowing me to try and create for the love of it. Not for a client, a show, or any particular reason in mind but just for arts sake. It has been helping when I get in one of those through out everything moods.

I have seen brilliant images made with pin hole cameras and poor work made with the best equipment. So I do know that the majority of "good" work is with the mind and eye. But when we have a client to please or a show to jury for, we are not being true to ourselves.

Jim, I find that shooting dog shows is similar to the commercial work I have done too. Both the clients in those fields require a specific need that has very little room for creativity and change. Quality of the image is upmost and it seems you also give them the best regarding that.

In a PPA program I will never forget, the speaker talked about making the experience the most important when it comes to creating the images. Being nice also provides that good experience and that is very important. Because if a real jerk photographed your dog, and you disliked the whole experience, I do not care how wonderful the images were, they would not like them as much as they would if they had a good experience.

I feel the same with us when we are creating. Sometimes outside forces just do not line up to make the shoot brilliant in our eyes. But I would bet the clients are happy if you provided your best for that time.

So today for my own art without intent, I went to a Adopt a Husky demonstration and shot what I wanted to shoot. I had a great day and know that I am now thinking about becoming a foster mom. We will see how my intent works with the my spouse!




Peggy Sue
Re: Expectations [Re: Peggy Sue] #12825
01/28/08 08:47 AM
01/28/08 08:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
TN
Julie Offline
Addict
Julie  Offline
Addict

Joined: Jun 2005
TN
I do not solicit for dog shows. 1) I don't have the time to be gone for them 2) I don't know all the breeds well enough to do a proper job.

I do know whippets because I have whippets. I know what the whippet people want to see. I know how a whippet should be stacked and exactly what the gait should look like.

Pet photography is a whole nother can of worms. You really have to know what the client is looking for. Do they want the collar on or off? Do they want "cute" photos or artistic ones? I have found pet people somewhat easier, and yet, harder. The show dogs are better behaved, but the clients are MUCH more picky. The pet dogs are wild and usually(not always) out of control and you better know how to channel that and still get the shot.

With wildlife, you wait and it will eventually come(if you are lucky) You just have to be patient and aware. With pets, you must be in control, direct, be patient, not get rattled, not let the people rattle you. You have to know how to get the cute expression, and shoot fast!

Re: Expectations [Re: Julie] #12826
01/28/08 09:37 AM
01/28/08 09:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
Peggy Sue Offline
Pooh-Bah
Peggy Sue  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2006
Illinois
If one thought they were great all the time, then the irritation that comes with growth would not be there. Does this mean that we are all growing in leaps and bounds?


Peggy Sue
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 2,568 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Susitna Sled Dog, David Vitor, CTiefisher, DrSuse BlueDevil, airphotog
3319 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums6
Topics636
Posts1,015
Members3,319
Most Online3,525
Oct 24th, 2025

Copyright 2005 - 2020 Nature, Wildlife, and Pet Photography Forum. "NWPPhotoforum" and "nwpphotoforum.com" are the property of Nature, Wildlife, and Pet Photography Forum. All Rights Reserved. Wild Coyote Studio, New York Pet Photographer

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1
(Release build 20190129)
PHP: 5.6.40-1+hw4 Page Time: 0.052s Queries: 15 (0.015s) Memory: 0.9715 MB (Peak: 1.9730 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2025-11-06 10:29:01 UTC