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My first (scary) submission for critique #20014
01/25/09 12:11 AM
01/25/09 12:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
BIRDPOND Offline OP
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Atlanta GA
Ha ha please be gentle with me, it's my first time.

This is the raw image from my camera. I realize it's flat, noisy and soft.

I processed a version in AOLs simple photo adjustment menu, just to get a feel for if the image has some potential, and it seems to: with a bit of enhancing it is kinda striking with the glowing backlighting, especially with the fishes face still readable. I cropped it a little in AOL, too.

But as far as ACTUALLY processing it, I'm at a loss as I'm still VERY clumsy in Photoshop.

I know it will be better with deeper brighter color and a bit more sharpening (I managed that in a little in AOL) as well as the correct crop.

How would you go about improving the image? I'm very interested in what direction you might take.

Any advice, critique etc. is humbly appreciated!

20165-DSC_0768.JPG (165 downloads)

Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: BIRDPOND] #20015
01/25/09 12:13 AM
01/25/09 12:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
BIRDPOND Offline OP
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Atlanta GA
oops that came out way too big, sorry, what did I do wrong?


Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: BIRDPOND] #20016
01/25/09 11:03 AM
01/25/09 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Manhattan, New York, New York
James Morrissey Offline
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James Morrissey  Offline
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Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Manhattan, New York, New York
Hi Cathy,

When I clicked on the attachment, it came up just fine. When I clicked on it a second time, it came out even bigger - which I like. Please correct me if I am wrong, but you are really not looking for a critique on the composition and image, but on how to post process it better. Yes?

James

Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: James Morrissey] #20017
01/25/09 11:35 AM
01/25/09 11:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
BIRDPOND Offline OP
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Atlanta GA
James, thank you for such a quick response on a weekend!

I'm open to whatever comments you may have. I am very, very new at this (I bought my camera as an '08 Christmas gift to myself ) and still struggling to use my equipment as well as getting the 'feel' for taking shots. Not to even mention fumbling my way through Photoshop.

Trying to handle the heavy macro lens (it's heavy for ME, anyway) and focus on very close, very quickly darting small fish in the dark is challenging to say the least. Haha sheer stubborn cussedness on my part. But I'm determined to improve.

So please tell me whatever I need to hear!

:-)


Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: BIRDPOND] #20018
01/25/09 11:46 AM
01/25/09 11:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Atlanta GA
ps As to composition, my lens "focus breathes', making macro framing very hit-or-miss, any clues how to compensate for this? 105mm 2.8 Nikkor Micro G ED VR etc . . .camera D90. THANKS.


Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: BIRDPOND] #20019
01/25/09 07:35 PM
01/25/09 07:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Donner Summit, CA
glamson Offline
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Donner Summit, CA
Quote:

Ha ha please be gentle with me, it's my first time.

This is the raw image from my camera. I realize it's flat, noisy and soft.

I processed a version in AOLs simple photo adjustment menu, just to get a feel for if the image has some potential, and it seems to: with a bit of enhancing it is kinda striking with the glowing backlighting, especially with the fishes face still readable. I cropped it a little in AOL, too.

But as far as ACTUALLY processing it, I'm at a loss as I'm still VERY clumsy in Photoshop.

I know it will be better with deeper brighter color and a bit more sharpening (I managed that in a little in AOL) as well as the correct crop.

How would you go about improving the image? I'm very interested in what direction you might take.

Any advice, critique etc. is humbly appreciated!




Cathy,

Yes, posting an image for critque can be a bit scary but I think it really helps to get constructive feedback to improve your photography.

I'm going to give you my honest opinion here and please understand that it is meant to be constructive. You certainly didn't pick an easy subject to start off on. Shooting macro is challenging enough without picking a subject that darts in and out of focus. And I guess for me that is the main problem with this image. Technically you just didn't succeed. The D90 with a 105mm Macro lens is an excellent tool for macro photography, but unfortunately this image doesn't fulfill the potential. The exposure is about 2 EVs dark and you didn't nail the focus. It looks like you were shooting wide open and with no depth of field (DOF) it would be impossible to get the entire thickness of the fish in focus. Judging from the amount of noise it also looks like you were shooting at high ISO which further detracts from the sharpness. As far as composition goes, if you had caught the whole fish it might have worked in a documentary way, but with the tail missing, it just doesn't work for me. I do like the green halo around the head.

Now I know this sounds pretty negative but you asked. I shoot alot of macro with a D300 and 105mm Macro lens so I know the challenges and rewards. Let me tell you how I would have tried to get this shot. In order to get a good macro and avoid what you call "breath focusing", you must shoot a macro with the lens stopped down enough to get decent DOF. Also you can't shoot at too high an ISO or you get too much noise. The way to be able to do both of these in this situation is to use flash. Since you are shooting into an aquarium, you really need to use the flash off camera to prevent reflection. The best way to do this is to take the top of the tank off and set the flash to shoot down into the tank. Stop down the macro lens to f/11 or f/16 and then really work on getting the best focus and shooting lots of shots. You may also find that its better to back out a little to get a wider shot and then crop down a little in PP.

Speaking of PP. I'm not sure what your work flow is, but AOL tools are pretty minimal. I assume you are shooting jpeg and there are several good programs you can use. Personally, I wouldn't recommend Photoshop for the beginner, but PS Elements or PaintShopProx2 are both good programs. Personally I only shoot in RAW and process with Capture NX2 and either PaintShoPro or Photoshop. But I'm not a beginner.

Now I did download your image and played with it a little in NX2. Unfortuately, post processing cannot make up for an image that wasn't captured correctly in the camera. I'm posting my best shot at processing this image with the caveat I just made. From playing with the image, I do get the idea of what you were after. I think it's just going to take developing your technique and practice, practice, practice.

Hope this helps.

Geo


Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: glamson] #20020
01/25/09 09:29 PM
01/25/09 09:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
BIRDPOND Offline OP
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
Thank you, Geo, I guess I was going by the AOL enhanced image which seemed sharper and brighter on my monitor (I haven't figured out how to adjust the monitor yet). Just to show you what I saw, here's how the 'AOL' version appeared to me, to give you an idea at least of what I was trying for.

Also I have been trying to get sharper focus with this lens, which I know is a great lens, but I must be doing something horribly wrong. Even in bright light with auto mode and auto focus on a tripod or handheld w/VR of a relatively stationary object like a tree branch, I can't get a sharp image. I was just hoping I could go for mood or effect anyway, but evidentally the technical issues undermine that.

Thank you, however, for the time you took to give me your feedback. Back to the drawing board I guess. I'll find a way to make this work since I can't afford anything else now until I get the lens paid off, haha.

20186-harlequinb.jpg (58 downloads)
Last edited by BIRDPOND; 01/25/09 09:31 PM.

Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: BIRDPOND] #20021
01/25/09 11:03 PM
01/25/09 11:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Donner Summit, CA
glamson Offline
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Quote:

Thank you, Geo, I guess I was going by the AOL enhanced image which seemed sharper and brighter on my monitor (I haven't figured out how to adjust the monitor yet). Just to show you what I saw, here's how the 'AOL' version appeared to me, to give you an idea at least of what I was trying for.

Also I have been trying to get sharper focus with this lens, which I know is a great lens, but I must be doing something horribly wrong. Even in bright light with auto mode and auto focus on a tripod or handheld w/VR of a relatively stationary object like a tree branch, I can't get a sharp image. I was just hoping I could go for mood or effect anyway, but evidentally the technical issues undermine that.

Thank you, however, for the time you took to give me your feedback. Back to the drawing board I guess. I'll find a way to make this work since I can't afford anything else now until I get the lens paid off, haha.




Cathy,

The image you sent in your reply looked much better than the first one as far as exposure goes. Maybe it was something in the way you uploaded it that was the problem?? The focus problem was still there.

This time I took a look at your EXIF data and it confirmed my suspicion that you are shooting wide open and at high ISO. As I said these are killers for macro work. I would not really push the D90 sensor above ISO800 and that would be pushing it. High ISO noise is made even worse by underexposure.

It was a little troubling to hear that you have been unable to get a sharp image from your lens. Although Nikon has pretty good QC, it is not uncommon to get a lens that is out of adjustment. I have had to exchange a new lens on occasion because the lens didn't test out well when I received it. The D300 allows you to fine tune the autofocus on your lenses and I have one lens I'm using right now that required me to fine tune it. You might want to send that lens to Nikon for adjustment. There is nothing more frustrating that not being able to get a sharp image. You might want to take a look at this document that talks about testing your focus. It was originally writte for the D70 but it all applies to the D90.

Geo

http://www.lamsonweb.com/Photo/focustestchart.pdf

Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: glamson] #20022
01/25/09 11:25 PM
01/25/09 11:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
BIRDPOND Offline OP
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
Thank you so much, I will check out the link and also keep my ISO lower (I didn't realize it might be a problem, having been told about how good the model is in low light situations). Ha ha I can't seem to help always pushing things to the limit.

I think I'll take the lens to the shop where purchased it and see if they can give a whirl. If they can come up with crystal clarity I'll know it's my eyes getting worse (I'm being serious -- I have adjusted the diopter several times so maybe it really is my vision).

Thank you so much to everyone here, I am very appreciative of such a generous and professional group.


Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
Re: My first (scary) submission for critique [Re: BIRDPOND] #20023
01/26/09 12:27 AM
01/26/09 12:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Atlanta GA
BIRDPOND Offline OP
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BIRDPOND  Offline OP
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Atlanta GA
(I can't seem to open your test page, froze my computer three times . . .?)

Please feel free to email me directly if there's another way I can view it.

Thank you.


Cathy "I like photographs that look like paintings."
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