I have been cropping one of the photo shoots I did over the weekend. It is so frustrating because I am cropping them to fit the 4 x 6 size (the longest) and that just does not look good with most shots. How do you set up a single dog for this kind of dimension? I actually cant' even do it for two people side by side and a dog! There is always a ton of background to the right and left of them if horizontal and if I try to crop a horizontal one vertical, I have to cut off the edges of the subjects and there is still not enough room above and below them (because for the horizontal one, I got close on top and bottom). If I try to shoot vertical at that format, it also leaves way too much top and bottom and will often include areas outside of the backdrop that way.

I need help knowing how to pose. The people from this weekend who came 1.5 hours down to me for the shoot, told me they secretly got married two days before!!! And hadn't gotten many photos so asked if I could also do some photos of them (I have not done people before). I had no idea how to direct and pose them. I was sitting there thinking, does this make me a wedding photographer, I swore never to shoot weddings LOL. (extremely nice people!).

They aren't expecting a lot there knowing I am not an expert in any of this but I'd really appreciate some posing ideas and this darn cropping thing. I can't crop more square (like 8 x 10 dimensions) because I put them up on the internet in the order system at the one size and when I print them, I just set it to print at the paper size, so if it's too long for a certain format it just cuts off the ends. So I have to be sure to have anough on the ends in case it will be cut off. (i hope that makes sense). I can't crop more square becuase it would be a ton more time and work and space on my computer to have more than one version of crop. (gads I hope you understand this...I'm even getting confused!)

I can post a couple examples if that helps.
Thanks!

Here are a couple of examples. Awful cropping, cutting the couple off suddenly like that, and both crops have so much background to the left and right?

Also learned no light backgrounds with light/white dogs!

Dee Dee,
OK, you have a lot of choices for finished print formats depending on whether or not you're going to print them yourself or have a lab do it. If you print yourself, you can always cut the image down to a more appropriate size.

I use MPIX as my lab (there are several really good ones out there but MPIX matches my files very well) and they have formats that range from letter size, 8X10 through square. Ultimately, you need to be able to crop the image to a format that focuses on the subject(s). If that's square, then make a square proof/print.

If you're cropping in PhotoShop, make sure you use the auto-cropping feature and it will automatically crop to the appropriate size at 300 dpi.

It's difficult to set up the shoot for any particular format. You fix that later in the cropping and print size. Never do weddings. Repeat after me: "I'll never do weddings". Thank you.

My format for most of what I do is letter or 8X10 but I can crop to whatever aspect ratio works for a particular image and still get a good print from my lab. Stop feeling limited by the capture aspect ratio (8X12; 4X6) and think instead of what format works best for the image you've captured.

Jim

Thank you Jim!!

I do all my own printing, I can print from 4 x 6 up to 17" wide and as long as it goes. I put everything up on my site like this...

http://www.murryphotography.com/events/puyallup_jan_13_07/sporting/index.html

I offer the traditional sizes, 4 x 6, 5 x 7 and 8 x 10, as well as larger art prints (different printer and paper).

After I do a shoot, I post process and crop the images. I crop them to fit a 4 x 6 which is the widest. I then upload them to the ordering system where they are automatically displayed like on the above link. This is where people go to see their "proofs" and order.

So all of the images have to be cropped wide, and if an 8 x 10, etc is ordered, it is cropped in automatically, when I print them, on the widest side.

But the problem is it looks crappy at the widest crop. Is this just something everyone has to deal with? I would love to offer square prints! I am not able to specify the best dimensions that will fit each image the best because I usually have over a hundred images and it would take way too much time. As it is, it usually takes me a good week or more to post process a shoot, as I have to fit it in between my 12 hour computer work day plus 2-3 hour painting each day.

So how do you do it, what dimension do you crop to to show the customer, an 8 x 10? And if so do you also keep a second version of the image in case someone wants to order a 4 x 6 so you can add back in the extra part on the sides? Or do you do like i have been and just show the proofs at 4 x 6 and crop it in if a bigger one is ordered?

This hasn't been a big problem with the ring shots because there is always something to balance out the image (background elements). But with the studio shots, ther background is flat backdrop so it's much more obvious to have a bunch of nothingness there. Does the crop job on both of the above bother you? It does me...

Or am I being too picky?

ROTFL I will gladly repeat after you...I'll NEVER do weddings!!!

Quote:

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So how do you do it, what dimension do you crop to to show the customer, an 8 x 10? And if so do you also keep a second version of the image in case someone wants to order a 4 x 6 so you can add back in the extra part on the sides? Or do you do like i have been and just show the proofs at 4 x 6 and crop it in if a bigger one is ordered?

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Dee Dee,
I understand the problem and there's no simple solution. I proof in one format only -- 8.5X11 if I'm printing myself; 8X10 if I'm sending to my lab. But, remember, my basic product is an 8X10 formal. If folks want snapshot size prints, I simply give them 4X5 from the lab or print my reduced 8.5X11 image on 4X6 paper and cut it down. 5X7s require a re-crop in most cases and I go back to the original and crop to that dimension for either in-house or lab printing.

When I do other portraits, I try to proof according to subject matter. For example, we did a wedding portrait of an older couple that made a great square image and then blew it up to 20X20 on canvas and had it on the mantle when they were married in their home. They loved it and I got more portraits to shoot from the family.

Another image I shot at a wedding (yes, I unfortunately do them for friends -- but I hate it!!) needed to be full-frame 8X12 so I left it in that format. Here it is.



Both of those images were proofed at the cropped dimensions. I don't think people can visualize it if you don't show it to them pretty much the way you want to finish it.

Cropping is one of the most powerful tools we have. Look at some of Tony's images. He is, in my opinion, the cropmeister. He really knows how to focus your eye on what he wants you to see. In the studio work especially, you need to make sure you do the same.

Keep experimenting,

Jim

That is a beautiful shot Jim!! I like it a lot.

Ah OK so you do keep an original version, I have been cropping mine all down to 4 x 6 dimensions and keeping only that. So I am also presenting them to the customer at those dimensions which are not the most flattering. I have been doing that to save space on my computer and not having to keep two versions (and save time as well). Maybe I'll have to rethink that. I wish all the dimensions were the same it would be a lot easier!!

I agree totally, people cannot visualize it without seeing it cropped the way it would be. That is my frustration, with my sales it is a pretty evenly mixed bag on what they will be ordering, some of all sizes so I can't choose one crop for one and another for another because I don't know what size they will be ordering. I could crop for 8 x 10 but then I'd have to leave too much top and bottom rather than side to side so I would have room to crop down for a 4 x 6. Also when I print, a bit of all the edges get cut off some so I can't crop exactly like I'd want it or part will get cut off, I have to leave some extra.

But now I know there is no easy solution, so thanks for your input. Maybe offering once size only..ha.

Yes, Tony IS the cropmeister! I have studied his crops a lot. It's amazing how a bit of a different crop will change the whole feel.

Dee Dee,
one way to minimize the space that gets taken up on your computer is to burn the originals to CD or DVD and then only open up those originals when you get an order.

As I said, shows are different than candids or people/pet portraits. I crop all the show shots the same because I know they'll order the initial 8X10. But when I shoot candids or portraits, I crop to the final aspect ratio that makes sense given the subject and the image. Those sessions always yield fewer proofs, too, so I can be more custom on my crops.

I've found that backing up my originals to CD/DVD is always a safe policy. I've had hard drives crash and the information on them unrestorable. Now I back up every shoot to 2 external hard drives and also burn a CD/DVD or 2 if it was a show. I can always re-do my image processing. I'm dead if I lose the only version I have.

Crop the images the way that looks best to you and then see how close that is to a standard size. If it's close, recrop to the standard size. At some point, the images have to fit in a frame so you need to be able to go standard with them.

Jim

Good advice. I do backup to an external drive but not a CD I will start doing that for double safety. I will definitely start saving all of the originals from now on too, before this I have only saved the cropped ones. (d'oh).
That makes sense how/why you crop the way you do.

I just uploaded all of the images, the ordering isn't working yet there is a glitch but you can see the thumbnails and the closeups of each anyway. I am still not real happy with all the crops but they aren't as bad as I was envisioning...I like #3 for instance, the flowers fill out the sides if a 4 x 6 is ordered but still allows room for cropping to 8 x 10. Still, many could be a lot better.

http://www.murryphotography.com/events/chloe/index.html

I never trust my photos to a hard drive. Because my computers are on the road so much, I get about 1 to 2 years of life from my hard drives. I have my photos backed up to CD. I have never lost a photo, but have lost plenty of hard drives. Presently, I am using 9 hard drives between 3 computers.

I don't crop until I print and I do my cropping in Qimage as that is my printing program. I then save my printed file along with the original.

I am going to have to do better with cropping in camera as I reallly need to crop before presenting. Much to learn but learning much with each shoot. I have lost my hard drive a couple of times too, luckily the one backup I had restored it all but I'll start backing up more.

You mentioned photoshops auto cropping, I can't seem to find that in my photoshop (CS2) do you know where it is?

(I had to move the pages so the above link won't work, correct link is
http://www.murryphotography.com/events/chloe/july07/index.html)